Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

ohnonotgmail · 23-06-2022 09:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237940#Comment_119237940

I'm sure they were being entirely genuine when they asked the question.

Bannasidhe · 23-06-2022 09:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237959#Comment_119237959

I'm sure they could have googled before repeating a false trope that has been doing the rounds for the last two weeks.

They literally repeated fake news but sure, entirely genuinely assumed and never bothered to find out the facts.

ohnonotgmail · 23-06-2022 10:00AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237978#Comment_119237978

I think you missed my sarcasm.

23-06-2022 10:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237940#Comment_119237940

It's not a "trope".

The reality is that biological females are more likely to be beaten by a biological male than vice versa.

I was listening to a debate on this very issue with the human rights campaigner and LGBT advocate, Peter Tatchell. He was talking about the fact that, on average, studies show that trans women have an advantage over biological females. Now he believes that there should be an individualised approach rather than a blanket ban, but even he admits that this advantage exists.

What FINA did was a massive step forward and a massive push back against this ideology, and long may that trend continue (as it appears to be, a concerted trend).

Sebastian Coe put it best, when he said:

I've always made it clear: if we ever get pushed into a corner to that point where we're making a judgement about fairness or inclusion, I will always fall down on the side of fairness.

ohnonotgmail · 23-06-2022 10:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238047#Comment_119238047

Did you bother to read the post that bannasidhe replied to? It was a complete trope bandied about that has no basis to it.

Bannasidhe · 23-06-2022 02:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119237983#Comment_119237983

Opps. Apologies.

Bannasidhe · 23-06-2022 02:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119238047#Comment_119238047

None of that has anything to do with my post. The post you quoted. Or the post I was responding to.

Or whether or not FTM athletes competed in women's categories - which was the contention of the post I was responding to.

It's like you didn't bother reading the post you quoted before regurgitating the latest word salad as concocted by GC HQ. Just as the poster I was responding to was spouting the latest trope concocted by GC HQ.

This regurgitating without actually researching or reading what is being quoted appear to be a consistent trend.

plodder · 23-06-2022 03:06PM

GC HQ

Beasty · 23-06-2022 09:37PM

Posts deleted - Peter Tatchell is not the topic

El Gato De Negocios · 28-06-2022 09:33AM

https://nypost.com/2022/06/27/trans-woman-beats-13-year-old-in-womens-skateboarding-contest/

One has to wonder, how in the hell was an adult allowed compete in a category for kids in the first place. Its this kind of nonsense, statement making crap from members of the trans community that will ultimately create more problems and much more pushback for what they are trying to achieve. Its into South Park territory at this stage.

BattleCorp · 28-06-2022 09:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260513#Comment_119260513

It wasn't a kids category. It was open to all ages, kids and adults.

Girly Gal · 28-06-2022 10:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260513#Comment_119260513

Tbf the competition wasn't for kids only, it was open to adults, the fourth placed competitor was 28, whether the transwoman should have competed is a different question, most of the kids are actually ranked higher than her. I think the fact the transwoman doesn't yet consider herself a woman, but, still decided to compete and was accommodated is of more concern.

El Gato De Negocios · 28-06-2022 12:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260616#Comment_119260616

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119260666#Comment_119260666

TBF, I asked why were adults allowed compete with kids in the first instance. The point remains, a MTF trans skater winning anything over a female 13 year old is just bad optics.

J.O. Farmer · 28-06-2022 01:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261466#Comment_119261466

It is bad optics even if being a full grown adult doesn't confer any advantages. I don't know what advantages or otherwise males have over females or adults over teens.

I assume there is a male female difference as there were men's and womens classes in the Olympics.

Skateboarding seems to be mainly dominated by young teens. When the Olympics were on the competitors all seemed to be around 13. I don't know if that's because they started younger and in 10 years time it'll be dominated by the same people now in their 20s.

BattleCorp · 28-06-2022 01:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261466#Comment_119261466

TBF, I answered your question accurately. She was allowed to compete with adults as it's an open competition with no age limit. It's not unusual to have kids competing with adults. It happens in some Olympic events. Sky Brown won an Olympic bronze medal in 2020 for the UK at the age of 13 while competing against adults.

I agree with your point about the trans skater. MTF trans should not be competing in female sports. Although in a sport like skateboarding, being MTF trans might actually be a disadvantage in general. Still, I'm not in favour of MTF trans taking part in female sports.

jmayo · 28-06-2022 02:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261797#Comment_119261797

You don't know what advantages if any males have over females when it comes to physical sports ?

Righty oh. 🙄

Girly Gal · 28-06-2022 03:17PM

I don't really know enough about skateboarding, but, it looks more skills based than anything else, they are divided into men's and women's at the Olympics, that would suggest men do in deed have an advantage. For skateboarding in particular, young teens competing with adults doesn't appear to be that uncommon, it happened in the Olympics, so not surprising in a lower level competition. Why the transwoman was allowed compete with them is a totally different argument.

J.O. Farmer · 28-06-2022 09:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261920#Comment_119261920

. You think skate boarding is representative of the physical requirements of all sports or can you explain what advantages the males have in skateboarding specifically.

I don't know what physical attributes are required for good skateboarding tricks.

Now if we were talking about running or swimming or rugby etc. etc. it might be more obvious.

J.O. Farmer · 28-06-2022 09:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262482#Comment_119262482

It does look skills based but I can't say exactly what advantages males have.

Perhaps females may have an advantage due to a lower centre of gravity.

Potential-Monke · 28-06-2022 09:30PM

I didn't read too much into it, but the below article (from a woman) seems to show that being male does indeed have an advantage in skateboarding: higher centre of gravity (shoulders) means they have better momentum when doing tricks, compared to womens low centre of gravity (hips/abdomen). She goes on to say tricks are male focused because the same trick isn't performed the same by women because of aforementioned centre of gravity (which helps in some things, but overall is not a benefit for women).

https://chivomengro.com/2012/11/26/feature-the-genders-of-skateboarding/

I mean, we've all seen the video of the 2 female gymnasts commenting on the guy doing what they do, but easier, quicker, faster and beyond what they could do...

J.O. Farmer · 28-06-2022 09:42PM

Interesting article showing its the weight and distribution of the weight that makes a difference.

It seems skateboarding can be added to the list of sports where males have a physical advantage.

Enduro · 06-07-2022 05:40PM

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jul/06/british-triathlon-creates-open-category-for-transgender-athletes-to-compete-at-all-levels

The idea of an open category alongside a well-enforced Female category has been suggested quite a few times as a potential solution which affords as much inclusiveness as possible whilst still ensuring competitive fairness either in this thread or its several predecessors. (I know I suggested something like this a long time ago). Good to see a major real-world move in this direction. It seems like it has massive buy-in as well. An open category without any reference to either gender or sex seems to be by definition completely inclusive and non-discriminatory.

I suspect that the more militant TRAs will be unwilling to accept something like this, as it involves compromise from an absolute position.

The most likely losers in this scenario are the males who occasionally lose out to females when they no longer have an exclusive male category. I've been involved in races where results would have played out that way had there been no Male category, but speaking as one of those males, it's a compromise I'm personally more than happy to make to improve the inclusiveness of sports, whilst maintaining the more important fundamental competitive fairness.

06-07-2022 07:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119299708#Comment_119299708

I suspect that the more militant TRAs will be unwilling to accept something like this, as it involves compromise from an absolute position.

Thankfully it doesn't really matter what they think anymore.

They've had their day, and now the pendulum has swung so far in their direction, it's in the process of shooting that momentum right back in their faces. As all forms of militancy, they accept no compromise: either you comply, or you're a hateful transphobe. What a choice. Well, sporting bodies have had enough - and good on them for standing up to what can only be described as bullies.

But as I say, it seems the momentum really has shifted. Not only among sporting bodies, which are very highly likely to replicate this further over the coming months and years, but prominent public figures - including Bette Midler - coming out to speak "her truth", to borrow that ghastly phrase.

bokale · 06-07-2022 08:01PM

My favourite thing about these "discussions" is how either side will latch on to anyone agreeing with them.

Bette Midler haha.

06-07-2022 08:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300370#Comment_119300370

Bette Midler is just one example of many women standing up and saying, enough is enough.

The Overton window is shifting, slowly but surely, it's shifting. About time too, as far as I'm concerned.

bokale · 06-07-2022 08:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300461#Comment_119300461

Macy gray too haha

06-07-2022 08:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300536#Comment_119300536

The more that prominent and successful women speak up, the better. No matter who. Whether it's JK Rowling or Hillary Clinton or Macy Gray or Bette Midler.

I don't laugh at women because they happen to have this view. I actually value and respect their opinion - as well as their courage to speak up against what many believed was the prevailing orthodoxy.

bokale · 06-07-2022 09:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300753#Comment_119300753

What do you think of women who speak up with the opposite view?

06-07-2022 09:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300853#Comment_119300853

But they're not speaking up against what many believe is the prevailing orthodoxy.

The ones I respect are the people who might get cancelled or abused or harassed or threatened; those people who stand up and say what they think despite the relentless wave of abuse they know they're guaranteed to receive, are the ones who have earned my respect.

As happens in any civil rights movement, actually.

bokale · 06-07-2022 09:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119300868#Comment_119300868

So you respect the ones who align with your views and not the others?

I am shocked.

Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

Comments