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Need help with accounting.

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  • 22-06-2022 8:42pm
    #1
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Started a business and I'm done waiting for help from Paul Partnership to get me started with accounting. I went headfirst into starting a small business and, hands up, have left the accounting piece behind. Had I bogged myself down with bookkeeping, I KNOW I'd never have even started.

    I've kept receipts, sales and purchase details, banks statements etc but I need to formalize about 6 months of accounts.

    What's my best option to catch up? Sit with a bookkeeper and just pay until it's done? Find a good booking 101 resource and do it myself (recommendations welcome)?

    Thanks all.



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    #2
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Look for a bookkeeper, rate is probably €20-25 an hour. They'll get 6 months of records up to speed for you for a couple of hundred quid, which will be a business expense and allowable as a tax deduction for you.



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    #3
    hold my beer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    If you're any use with spreadsheets, doing it yourself can be an option. A lot of people hate doing it though.



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    #4
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256339#Comment_119256339

    Yeah I am fine with excel - I just need to get to grips with the format and what needs to be added where. It's like I'll learn fast when doing lesson 1-1000 but I need a lesson zero which explain the general setup and layout to make sure I'm doing it all right.



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    #5
    Beatty69
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Beatty69


    Buy a simple software, I recommend Surf Accounts, get a book-keeper to help you set it up and show you how to use it and then keep your records in there. This does depend on how much time you have, if you're very time poor might be worth paying the book-keeper a couple of hours every week because they would do it a lot faster than you would.

    Then every year get an accountant to prepare proper accounts for you.



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    #6
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Went to an accountant this morning and they said the charge for year end is 2700. Cannot pay that so will have to go a cheaper route.

    Is there anything here that I could do myself with time and study?

    • Form 11
    • CT1 Return
    • Limited Company Accounts
    • B1/year end pack


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    #7
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 10,443 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270650#Comment_119270650

    Can't advise re limited company accounts, but I've traded as a sole trader for a couple of decades and always done our own accounts and returns. It's easy enough, once you research the basics and then keep to a regular schedule. Use software called QuickBooks for years, easy to produce basic profit & loss calculations, VAT returns and so on. If you're trading as a limited company, likely more complicated and costly......... which goes with the territory and has to be part of a conscious decision when starting out. No point in complaining about accountant costs afterwards :)



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    #8
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭Deeec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270650#Comment_119270650

    Why did you set up a company? It sounds like you are not going to be making much profit.

    A cheaper option would have been to set up as a sole trader for an initial year or so until you see if the business is viable.



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    #9
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270765#Comment_119270765

    Given the nature of my business, was advised to set up a Limited company to provide protection. However, also advised that end-of-year accounts would be about a grand.



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    #10
    POBox19
    Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭POBox19


    It's all about keeping good records, sales, debtors, purchases, creditors, banks, payments, receipts, equipment, expenses, wages, stocks, vat etc... No cash should leave or enter the business without a record. Spreadsheets are good for all those. If you spend more time doing books then actually doing business you may need to invest in a book keeper. If you are setting up a limited company you should engage an accountant as they can do all the forms to set you up. It should be money well spent for the time saved and their imprimatur on your annual accounts and financial advice.

    Good luck with the business.



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    #11
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭Deeec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270866#Comment_119270866

    Can you give me a rough idea of what you do and why you need the protection of a Ltd company - this may have being wrong advice for a start up. Alot of people seem to think they are better off being a ltd co when they would actually be better off being a sole trader.

    Final accounts and filings would cost about a grand. But you would have to actually do the book work and provide this to the accountant - VAT returns, wages, provide basic accounts. If you want all this done for you the quote of €2700 sounds reasonable - nobody would do all this for €1K. There is alot more work involved in in the accounts for a limited co versus the accounts of a sole trader.



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    #12
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270915#Comment_119270915

    I have a small business selling collectables - trading cards, retro games, toy figures, movie memorabilia etc. When I initially started, it was an online clothing company for fans of different passions and, in order to protect my personal assets from a litigious company, I went the Limited company route. It also covered forays into other areas I may make down the line.

    Maybe it was the wrong advice, especially since I'm now doing well since I pivoted to the collectables.

    I would be good with figures and am sure I'm able to do my own bookkeeping. It's just the end of year piece I'm struggling with. Given my turnover, 2.5k makes no sense for me in year 1



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    #13
    Sunny Dayz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,308 ✭✭✭Sunny Dayz


    Why not engage a bit further with an accountant - ask them what you can do to keep costs down. If you can get costs down by doing some of it yourself - what excel template, bookkeeping software would they advise you and can they provide you with a bit of support starting out. Yes it is costly starting out but you won't be long finding your feet.



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    #14
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭Deeec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270957#Comment_119270957

    It probably was good advice for the initial business given the threat of copyright and litigation. I cant see any advantage given that you are trading collectibles - I would imagine this is low value stuff you are selling. Being honest with a turnover of €2.5K there is no point you trading as a Ltd company.

    Do you foresee this business to grow significantly in the future - if not then just scrap the company and trade as a sole trader. You could probably do all the filings yourself as a sole trader,



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    #15
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271011#Comment_119271011

    My apologies, the 2.5k is in relation to the cost of the end-of-year accounts.

    My turnover is about 2700 per month. I purchase everything with cash I make from the week before (I have no debit or credit). I'm also not drawing any income from the business. I'm spending everything I make on more products and marketing. My turnover would be higher if I had a business loan which I'm working through at the minute.

    I started with almost nothing but now I have probably 8 or 9 k in stock which allows me a lot of really solid ways to expand.

    If you were to take into account all my money in and out since I incorporated, it all fits on about 300 rows in excel.



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    #16
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270882#Comment_119270882

    I have a track of absolutely everything, its just I don't know what to do with it - as mentioned, sitting with a book keeper would be a good idea to get my head around it. That's for July.



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    #17
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271005#Comment_119271005

    He was saying that they either do it all or do none of it when I asked about handling some aspects. They use Surf which I've started looking at.



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    #18
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,738 ✭✭✭Deeec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271036#Comment_119271036

    Ah thats good - Are you making a profit yet?

    I take it you do have another income which you live on?

    I would advise you to sit down with an accountant and explain your situation in full - both from a business and personal taxation view. They will be able to advise if you need to be a ltd company. It would be alot easier if you could trade as a sole trader. I dont actually see any advantage to you trading as a LTD at the moment unless you have a high income.



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    #19
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271173#Comment_119271173

    Yeah, I'm making a good profit which allows me to reinvest heavily in stock and market the business. We have another income which is social welfare (I'm working with them to get off social welfare but it just about pays the bills and we need to be getting money from business pretty soon).

    The accountant there said I really don't need to be a company based on what I'm currently doing but that curtails some of my ideas for next year.



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    #20
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 10,443 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271036#Comment_119271036

    Personally I think a limited company setup on a current turnover of c€36K a year is daft. Unless there's some compelling reason why you might be at risk of being sued by a competitor. But if that's the case, you'd have to wonder about the business model.



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    #21
    El Gato De Negocios
    Registered Users Posts: 6,695 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    Completely off topic but can you PM me your website (if you have one) please. I collect horror memorabilia and associated bits so would love to be able to support a small Irish business if I can.



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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256339#Comment_119256339

    How does expense receipts fit into this though?

    I mean, when organizing things for the end of year accounts and so on, is having an expense reference on a spreadsheet enough, or do you need to physically download an expense receipt and keep it on file as an addition to that?

    I'm currently fixing this up, and I'm unsure whether the spreadsheet data is enough, or whether I need to keep a file of digital receipts (as all my expenses are online) somewhere.



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    #23
    hold my beer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    You need to summarise your expense receipts into a spreadsheet in order to total them and prepare accounts/tax computations, or else use software to do it. You also need to either print and store in one place now, or do it electronically, not leave them in multiple places to be gathered in the future (when Revenue breathing down your neck ha). Have a read of this: -


    https://www.revenue.ie/en/starting-a-business/starting-a-business/keeping-records.aspx



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    #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119542985#Comment_119542985

    Okay, so I already have all expenses listed and tallied on the spreadsheet - so that's that box ticked.

    But I have yet to amass physical receipts. So I do a lot of online advertising and you'd get bills for 750 euros from Facebook. I guess I'll have to start downloading them. However, I'm unsure if there is an issue that these expenses are not actually under my business name but rather my personal name. Do you know if this is an issue? As all advertising is directly related to my business work.



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    #25
    hold my beer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    They have to be in the business name, especially if claiming VAT.



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    #26
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119543188#Comment_119543188 There was an error displaying this embed.

    Are you a sole trader or a limited company? If a sole trader then the receipts in your name will be fine but if you're a limited company they should be for Xx Ltd.

    Scan them all into a Google drive folder by month and year. Should take you 10 minutes a month to organise the folder. Or else look at a receipt capture software, lots of the bookkeeping softwares have them built in.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546068#Comment_119546068

    Limited company.

    Not all receipts are in my name, as it has been changed - and most are in the business name. But I'm wondering how strict that line is. For instance, if there was an audit and the first 4-months, for example, were in my name, when it served the same function as if it were in the business name, would this be strike-able? Or would it be glossed over as an acceptable 'teething' issue at the start of a limited company.



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    #28
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547463#Comment_119547463 There was an error displaying this embed.

    You'd like to think a bit of common sense would apply. I'd include it myself. If you can show the name change within a reasonable time that'll help. If you leave it in your own name for 2 years that's a different story.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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    #29
    hold my beer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    Yep agree with downtheroad. Get them changed ASAP



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    #30
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119547491#Comment_119547491

    Sure, I agree. Hopefully common sense does prevail!

    There are also a small number of cases where I purchased some personal things accidentally by using the business card. The item value is very, very small, but I noticed it whilst doing the bookkeeping. Basically, my personal and bank card were both available on PayPal and the wrong one was accidentally selected. In these cases, is the standard protocol to pay back the small value and make a note on the bookkeeping records?



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    #31
    SureYWouldntYa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,724 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119548479#Comment_119548479 There was an error displaying this embed.

    That would be totally fine.

    If you didn't pay the company back, then you would have an overdrawn directors loan account, and PAYE withholding tax would be charged on the overdrawn balance, this would be recoverable once you make the repayment.

    If you've put money into the company yourself, it would also go against the director's loan account, and you'd be able to take that amount out of the company tax free as it is money owed back to you

    The main issue with director's loan accounts is when it is overdrawn by more than 10% of the company's assets, in that case the accountant would be required to report the director to the Corporate Enforcement Authority (formerly the ODCE) and they may be struck off as a director

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on


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