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Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭skidmarkoner


    It's a power play. Nothing behind other than making you think that they ate helping you when you get the day wfh.

    Watch it'll be slowly a full return regardless of what they say now. 5 days a week in the office and in extreme circumstances people will get blended as a reward.

    Why do you think they never consulted the unions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,950 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    I have no issue with being in the Office two days a week at most or when tasks dictate that I need to be there. But anything other than that is counter productive and putting hassle on people with the price of diesel going up and the extra time spend commuting to the office.

    The Public Sector really has a chance here to move with the times. It looks like some Senior Manager don't want that though for whatever reason.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    That is coming from the top down unfortunately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    People getting sick from Covid again in big numbers is also harming productivity.

    I expect that to come back into the conversation over the next couple of weeks as this latest wave gains traction.

    Too many places still haven't done anything to improve ventilation or reduce the capacity of rooms etc.

    WFM isn't just something which offers convenience, it helps keep us safe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭adelcrowsmel


    People being allowed to only apply for 1 to 2 days wfh there is the worst that I've heard of so far!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    A "power play"? By who? To win what? No, it's bollocks, pure and simple. Ego.

    DCC seem to be pretty much going it alone, though, with the mandatory fulltime-back-to-the-office thing, in defiance of government policy, but hey, . Most of the rest of the public service are already or will soon be offering a minimum of 2 days/week WFH. I predict DCC falling into line sooner rather than later, especially when COVID starts spreading rapidly through the offices on Wood Quay. And CEO Owen Keegan and the senior managers who insisted on this will have egg on their faces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,314 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Other County Councils are similar, I have heard of at least 2 who ordered staff back 5 days a week some time ago and others who have been back 4 days per week for a while. Also there is a policy on remote work from the LGMA (from March 2022 IIRC) which applies to all LAs, I'm not sure if it is a draft or final version but it is a policy as opposed to a policy framework. It is a travesty.

    Meanwhile I have also heard of LAs having major difficulty recruiting civil engineers and civil/architectural technicians, they get plenty of applications, people do the interviews but then if offered a position, they turn it down. I suspect anti WFH policies might be a factor. There should be plenty of scope for hybrid working for these roles as you're not "on site" every day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I'd only heard of it in DCC - who are the others, do you know?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,314 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I heard Westmeath and Monaghan were back 5 days a week and several others that I can't recall were back 4 days as part of a phased return - and that is some time ago so would not surprise me if many are now back 5.

    If any part of the public sector is going to resist WFH for all it's worth, it'll be the LA sector. Local jobs for local people mentality with many people's main ambition in life to become an official in the local council or local HSE office. Their status would be diluted if they were working from home.

    Also, County Councillors will have owners of sandwich shops lobbying them to get staff back to offices so they'll buy a sandwich at lunch.

    Also, plenty of Councils have status symbol glass palace headquarters, they probably think they'll look foolish if they are half empty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Also, County Councillors will have owners of sandwich shops lobbying them to get staff back to offices so they'll buy a sandwich at lunch.

    This is definitely happening - Richard Guiney's Dublin Business Improvement District thing have been at it, even though it makes no real logical sense. I still have to eat, whether I'm in the office or WFH. A local café or shop might get my money if I'm WFH, instead of in the city centre. I'm still spending money in shops (admittedly not as much), just not Richard Guiney's mates' shops.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,485 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    The blinkered approach would be his career specialty. Surprised he doesn't give summer schools in it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    I'm not sure if you meant the Sandwich shops lobbying partly in jest but I think it's actually a huge part of this. I heard some guy on the radio recently complaining how quite the restaurant lunch time trade is now because of WFH.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Louth County Council too. I know of one planner ordered back 5 days a few months back.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Getting loads of notifications every day from Public Jobs for roles in various Local Authorities around the country.

    So many I had to turn notifications off.

    Good luck to them trying to recruit under those terms.



  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭Bellie1


    Does anyone feel anyway optimistic about the proposed government legislation and whether we will be able to apply under that, regardless of what the local hybrid policy is? 2 days in office would make such a difference to my life but we're being told minimum of 3 inside. Surely under legislation, they'd find it hard to give a reason for why 3 days in office is needed Vs 2?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,066 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    They have bring back flexi too you would think. We been told we can do 2 or 3 days a week but nothing official yet.

    I miss the flexi personally. Really me difference to holidays etc



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    My department alone have had 2 rounds of advertisements.

    Both cases, people were selected and offered the role.

    they refused. I suspect when they found out that they had to start on Point 1 of the scale.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Starting at the 1st point of the scale is standard, though, it's been that way for years. Forever, possibly? Well, at least since they got rid of the age-pointing at the lower points of the lower scales a few years ago.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Always been the norm alright.

    But the new entrants are not accepting it and then subsequently turning down the role.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,523 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    You would wonder why they waste their time going through the process then.


    It's always been that way or they thinking they can negotiate?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    In my experience, the new entrants don’t understand that’s there’s no negotiation possible. They see the scale as a salary range thinking there’s options to go in at some point on it depending on experience etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 810 ✭✭✭crinkley


    But the adverts tend to say that new entrants will start at the bottom of the scale, so if anything it shows their lack of attention to detail or comprehension



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,462 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Prior to 2011 or whenever you could start on a higher point if you had a payslip and other evidence from the private sector for example.

    It is an unfair situation that it stops people switching between public and private and back again as they may have to take pay cuts (even with previous public service experience, if there has been a gap) and dissuades new, experienced people coming in. There needs to be a better balance for example - if somebody has 10 years private sector relevant experience, it won't be the same as 10 years public in terms of organisations knowledge but there should be some credit e.g. start 5 years up the scale once they have a pay slip to document previous earnings



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,673 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I started in 2009 and came from a job paying more (but took the risk due to the economy which worked out well in fairness).

    I started on point 1, no option whatsoever to be placed on a different point. I say that as position No. 1 on the interview panel for that job.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,462 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    I started in 2006 above the first point as I had a higher payslip so maybe there was some local flex or inconsistent policies (sure what's new 😁)



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,288 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I honestly don't think it will. Depending on department.

    I have been at management meetings. I have helped with the policy. We are going to a minimum of 2 out of 5 days and that will be it in my department.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,036 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    If you're on an open panel of 000s of people, there is no possibility of negotiation. I am aware of cases where for specific one-off jobs, negotiations happened. It's rare enough but it happens - subject to DPER approval.



  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭JoeSexton


    Civil servant here (in an ICT dept), Dublin city centre. Have been back in the office 5 days a week since end of March. Still none the wiser as to what if any blended working we'll be offered. 3 people have left our (small) ICT department in the last month for private sector jobs with blended/remote working. I really am annoyed about the old-fashioned approach our senior management have taken.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mtb_sends


    @JoeSexton How will they re-hire for these new roles. Are management expecting a new nationwide ICT panels to be formed or will they do their own recruitment campaign?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭Ollie321


    I have had a look through and haven't seen this mentioned yet and wondered of others opinions regarding the number of roles currently being filled for Dublin but which could very easily be done predominantly on a remote basis and therefore allowing regional applicants to have the opportunity of applying for such roles.

    Roles would need to be classified on a WFH availability prior to being filled etc



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