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UK will finally off shore illegal asylum seekers crossing the channel

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    How did they manage that? Paddle from Africa or the Middle East? Seeking refugee status in the UK from France, why are they not seeking refugee status in France if they're fleeing from their country of origin?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Well, we've already established that you have a fundamental problem with the existence of nation states and national borders. That is a bit odd

    You also seem to think that humans are mass produced and randomly assigned to their parents via some galactic lottery rather than being the product of their genetics and the genetics of their forebears.

    It is all a bit odd.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nermal


    While it might be luck that I was born in Ireland, it wasn't luck that made Ireland a good place to be born, whatchagonnado. It was the life's work of our ancestors to build what we enjoy today. Don't squander it in a naive attempt to save the world. Preserve it and pass it on to your children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    Yes, I do have a fundamental problem with the existence of nation states, so too does the USA, the EU, Russia etc., but don't let that stop you repeating how 'odd' you think it is.

    I think it's clear now who is struggling at reading and interpretation. A very basic concept of you not having an influence on who or where you were born seems to have gone right over your head, deary me.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    Ah, and there we have it. Selfishness. Fine, glad you've cleared all that up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    AND. I assume you mean your Republican ancestors here. Who fought against a tyranical oppressor, and hold on, it's name escapes me, it's just over the Irish Sea there.... but anyway... yes, they fought for a better life for themsleves against the country I can't think of (help me out) - and what are these immigrants doing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,774 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    People working in the black economy are far more likely to be exploited and victims of human trafficking etc. They are brought to the UK to 'be' exploited, certainly not to exploit the system. In that case, they are not the problem - it's the traffickers and illegal employers who need to be clamped down on.



  • Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




    They don't have to, according to UK law refugees do not have to claim asylum in countries through which they pass to reach safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    You seem to be very excitable, by all means try to become a resident of the US or Russia without a visa, and report back on your experiences. You might be suprised.


    Not having an influence on something and luck are two completely different things. There was no luck involved in me being born to my parents, although I had no influence over it. Have a bit of a think and come back.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,976 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Wait a second, was I allowed to choose to be born more wealthy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    'Become a resident of the US w/o a visa' - the 'undocumented' seems to have passed you by, has it?

    The sheer fact you lack the self-awareness to understand your own fortune ties nicely with your right-wing views.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    No, he's saying his parents planned him, and if they were wealthy that it wasn't luck that it was him, it was destiny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,976 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Is that the "manifest destiny" I hear the kids are into these days?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    Might he be living a reincarnated life? Perhaps he manifested this great life he has on his pre-life death bed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    You mean people who are illegally resident in the US? I am aware of them, perhaps elaborate on your point if there is one.

    I see you still haven't figured out the difference between agency and luck. You should have a think about it. A nice poster even gave you some dots to join that could facilitate your journey: "While it might be luck that I was born in Ireland, it wasn't luck that made Ireland a good place to be born, whatchagonnado. It was the life's work of our ancestors to build what we enjoy today."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Manifest destiny was a Utopianist belief that Americans were obligated to create a new, perfect world on the basis of their superior values. It was fairly daft.

    Does that remind you of any contemperory belief system? 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭whatchagonnado


    Gibberish. Pure unadulterated facile gibberish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,976 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Unfortunately, anyone with a bit too much skin tone didn't do well in the new utopia.



  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They. You make it sound like everyone in the Black/Shadow economy was human trafficked, when in reality, the vast majority wouldn't be.

    And they are part of the problem. In any case, you haven't countered what I said in the post you just quoted. You deflected away from it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,774 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    If they are working in the black economy and are in a country illegally, then they have no rights whatsoever and are wide open to being exploited by their employers (it stands to reason that their employers must be criminals if they are hiring people illegally and off the books).

    The idea that the refugees in the black economy are the ones gaming the system and milking their host country is a bit hard to believe, given the vulnerability of their position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 414 ✭✭dorothylives


    I'm confused by Biden's latest announcement that all refugees are to be sent to Spain to make their asylum applications from there. Part of Biden's presidential success was down to his pro migrant policies. How does it work that the USA can ship asylum seekers/refugees from Americas borders to Europe? How does that work when they are in Spain? Do they get to wander around and perhaps try to illegally enter other EU countries or are they to be put in secure detention centres which they can't leave until a decision on their claim is made? There's oddly been very little coverage of the issue. It sounds like it has the potential to cause massive illegal migration problems in Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 269 ✭✭deeperlearning


    Asylum seekers would actually be willing to work in the NHS, care homes, etc. which are so chronically understaffed and on the verge of collapse.

    Unlike these useless freeloaders:




  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 14,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Looks like Priti Patel's nasty Rwanda plan is starting to fall apart when faced with (inevitable) legal challenges, both at home and at European level.

    I think it was always seen as retty unworkable and done as a publicity stunt to dissuade immigrants illegally entering the UK and a further distraction to take the heat off Boris's Partygate shenanigans.

    Would be ideal if the entire UK Cabinet were on a one-way flight to Rwanda instead...

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,774 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    There was an interesting quote in the New Statesman from someone said to be au fait with what the government are really up to : “They never expected the flight to take off. The point of the exercise was to create dividing lines ahead of the next election, which is going to be fought, in part, on a manifesto pledge to leave the European convention on human rights and repeal the Human Rights Act.”

    This sounds extremely plausible. Johnson probably is not bothered in the slightest about immigration or refugees crossing the Channel. It's much more about creating divisions in society and the Tories thinking such divisions are a potential vote winner.



  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You're still deflecting.

    The original point was the belief that illegal migrants wouldn't come to the UK for the low welfare benefits, but the truth is that there is an active, and large Black economy in operation. An economy that migrants would be aware of through cultural/ethnic/national word of mouth. One that would allow them to live with the welfare benefits, in addition to whatever they made through the Shadow/Black economy.

    As for milking the system... you simply don't want to believe that they're capable of it. Which they are. The numbers of non-EU people on welfare in the UK proves that. Just as the numbers of illegals arriving in the UK show that they're able to live/work/support themselves, while being there illegally. Nobody is claiming that every illegal migrant exists in this manner, but the opportunity is there for those who want to, if they can make it into the UK.

    Whether or not they are there due to human trafficking, or whether they're being taken advantage of (or not), doesn't matter.. because it's irrelevant to the original point that is being countered.



  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sure, some of them would.. and many of them are missing documentation or credible character references, so would you still advocate that they be allowed such work with the most vulnerable members of any society?



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's actually a pretty smart strategy, albeit quite a risky move.

    It'll definitely place the Labour Party on the backfoot, as they'll have no choice but to back the European Court of Human Rights.

    But it seems a little unlikely. 50,000 migrants have crossed the channel this year so far, and the 2024 election is so far away. Then again, Johnson might call an early election.



  • Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




    There is a problem with your black economy theory, 10% is not particularly large when compared to other countries. In fact, the UK has a 29th smallest shadow economy of the 36 OECD countries. So using it as a rational for refugees choosing to come to the UK over other counties doesn't really stack up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 269 ✭✭deeperlearning




    In the case of Britain:

    The life's work of their ancestors in colonising countries and the life's work of their ancestors in transporting 3 million African slaves to the British colonies in the Caribbean and Americas.

    A example being Ireland and the hard work of those who ensured the export of grain under armed guard from Ireland to Britain during the famine while over a million Irish people died from starvation.

    Forgive our naïveté indeed.



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