Spot the Hidden Tax!

carrolls · 16-10-2003 12:17PM

Stamp Duty:mad:

Bee · 23-10-2003 01:07AM

DCC's Parking "fees" in Dublin

Residential Parking "Permits" e.g. residents forced to buy "permits" to park outside their homes due to Owen Keegan and friends putiing pay and display on non residential streets forcing commuters to move onto residential areas for parking.

The real reason why DCC hasn't brought in major "park and ride" facilities for commuters, they raise so much money from the various parking stealth tax's

Bee

parsi · 23-10-2003 10:07AM

Originally posted by Protocol
[Also, a single person can earn €11,600 free of income tax in Ireland, which is quite generous.

Ireland is a low tax country. [/B]

It is.

Unfortunately thats because the burden of paying for services has been put separately on the tax payer. So before you paid higher tax but that covered quite a lot of services. Now you pay less tax and have to pay separately for services.

This is ideal for high earners because tax paid is a percentage of your income whereas payment for services is at a flat rate.

Mr Big earns 100,000
Mr Average earns 25,000

So imagine-- pay an extra 1.5% tax to cover services - this affects Mr. Big Salary (1500) more than Mr. Average Wage (375)

Now imagine pay €1200 for services - this is a higher percentage of Mr Average Wage (4.8%) income than it is of Mr Big Salary (1.2%)

So who ends up better off...

star gazer · 23-10-2003 02:19PM

Hidden tax...or at least a reduced tax for one person over the community.
Income tax relief on investments. The middle class or working class spend most of their money on the basics and maybe some luxuries. Martgage interest relief and pension relief also help. But the guy/gal who eanrs a lot more than he/she will spend is able to find investments whereby they pay minimal at the top rate of tax. It's probably why the richest have an average tax burden of 15% while the average joe pays over twenty percent on average. The extra burden is a hidden tax because we all think that if someone earns over certain rates that they will pay 42% tax... in a perfect world maybe but here middle income earners are burdened with the direct and indirect taxes most.

Paddy20 · 23-10-2003 07:59PM

Smelly tax!.

P.:ninja:

Wolfie · 24-10-2003 06:57PM

Originally posted by Protocol
As is well known, the overall burden of tax in Ireland is low, well below the EU average. Sweden are the highest at approx 55% of GDP. The EU average is about 40%-45%. Ireland is under 35%.

So out of every €100 generated in Ireland, the Govt take below €35, even as low as €30, in tax.

To clear up some earlier points:

5. M50 bridge tax. This is not a tax as it does NOT accrue to eith er the central or local govt. It is a toll paid to a private firm.

11. Travel tax was abolished a few years back. But the UK do have a Departure tax.

A specific Inheritance tax does not exist. Inheritances are subject to CAT. Petrol, tobacco and alcohol taxes are all excise duties, which most countries have.

Remember, we have no property tax in Ireland, whereas a homeowner may face $1,000 pa Property tax in the USA.

Also, a single person can earn €11,600 free of income tax in Ireland, which is quite generous.

Ireland is a low tax country.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the property tax in the USA covers bin tax and water rates and that? You can bet they'll try the water rates again in Ireland soon. Every new house is fitted with a meter at the source of the water on the street. Property tax includes a few different things over there, which we pay for seperately. Anyway, the cost of housing and living in the states is beyond comparison to this den-of-thieves country.

Wolfie · 24-10-2003 07:00PM

Originally posted by jabaroon
Maybe I am mistaken, but as I remember it, the agreement was that the M50 and the east link were supposed to be made free once paid for? (with a margin)....they are almost certainly paid for by now! Hence my 'brown envelope' tax gag....who's getting them to to ensure that such an incredible earner stays that way!

Jab

Yeah I thought that too... the only thing that the company had to do was build the bridge.. the government built the actual motorway itself from the EU funds it got years ago, and the the company who built the bridge only got a lease of something like 5 or so years out of it.

Maybe its been extended now because they extended it and built another bridge beside it... the golden goose was just too good to give back eh?

Wolfie · 24-10-2003 07:02PM

Not really a tax, but they took away the first time buyers grant, leaving me 5 grand out of pocket... And it didnt stabilise house prices when they did it.

Capt'n Midnight · 24-10-2003 07:28PM

Remember there used to be more tax on local newspapers than on imported ones !

2% insurance levy was like most levies a one off. It was to bail out PMPA and look how they have treated young drivers since.

The youth employment levy. 1% or something

Civil Servants are allowed to claim more per mile than private sector and because of the "iron rice bowl" they pay less PRSI - so it's a hidden tax 'cos if it was the same then we'd pay less.

Also a lot of taxes are aimed at discretionary income - eg: you can walk to work, but you choose to use public transport or cars - hence the vat on all of those (same applies to anything with VAT on it - it is a Luxury !)

VAT / Stamp duty on houses - not a hidden tax but they are making so much on it you can't seriously expect them to do anything about reducing it

There is the charge now imposed for free information..

Though the VAT / VRT is still a beaut.

The whole point about Stealth taxes is to charge for what used to be free - look at the museum charges in the UK.
Luckily enough party support is not confined to socio-economic groups - other wise there would be a poll tax.

Recycling is expensive...
I can remember when you got money back for recycling bottles
now you have to pay when you hand someting in to be recycled.
Costs one euro to get rid of a tyre, about €65 to dispose of a Car - things that used to be skipped are now a viable industry - I'd seriously consider buying a site in India and shipping used computers and cars to it ( eg: In India they use the carbon rod in old torch batteries to make pH meters )

Then there is the 1% VAT hike a while back
Vat dropped from 21% to 20% - prices didn't
Vat went back up to 21% - prices rose.
Ditto with Euro Rounding..

And then knock on effect of all these taxes, companies need to charge a bit more and people need to get paid a bit more to pay and so everything is a few % more cos of rounding.

My Favorite Steath tax is the Lotto.
It is a tax bceause Everything that it pays for would have to come from Taxes instead - but of course the operator and newsagents get their cut so it costs us more , less gets to charity cos we've spent our loose change on it - and it keeps getting dearer.
Lotto = Self Assesment Tax on Optimism

ozmo · 04-11-2003 02:48AM

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Remember there used to be more tax on local newspapers than on imported ones !

Magazine tax. Dont know if this is just pain vat - I hate handing
over up to 11 euros for a magazine when you can see the low price in sterling printed on it.

ozmo

parsi · 04-11-2003 05:40PM

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight

Civil Servants are allowed to claim more per mile than private sector and because of the "iron rice bowl" they pay less PRSI - so it's a hidden tax 'cos if it was the same then we'd pay less.

I think you have it a little bit wrong. Companies can pay mileage and subsistence rates up to and including the Civil Service rates to employees without them being liable for tax. If you pay more than the civil service rates then there are tax liabilities ( I suppose its to make sure that fat cats aren't receiving skyhigh tax free mileage for their 3mile journey to work in order to avoid tax).

Some companies pay (considerably) less than the Civil Service rates.

Quatre Mains · 07-11-2003 06:34AM

- McGreedy apparently plans to slap BIK(thats 42%, campers) on stuff like this next year according to the papers;

- lunch vouchers from work
- 'lavish' work xmas parties
- use of work vehicles at the weekend
- use of work laptops at weekend
- work-subsidised home internet connections (for people working at home)
- water rates?

- he won;t manage to implement the holiday home tax cos it affects people who can afford 2 houses, ie the well-off.

- he refuses to push thru BIK on public sector car parking spaces whilst same sector gets a bigger raise than I'll get in the next 4 years combined. This raise alone will account for 800 euro of the tax you pay next year(according to Enda Kenny anyway).

This country is a f*ckin shambles. If there was any honesty in the govt they would say "Ok lads we're strapped income tax is back to 44% next year" instead of this stealth crap. The problem is that if the country exits the slump these taxes remain while income tax could be reduced as appropriate.

A lot screwed, more to screw
Neil

Victor · 21-11-2003 10:13PM

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Civil Servants ..... pay less PRSI - so it's a hidden tax 'cos if it was the same then we'd pay less.

The reason they pay less tax is they aren't entitled toa social welfare pension (because they get state pensions and if you want to complain about that ... :rolleyes:).

Originally posted by Bee
Residential Parking "Permits" e.g. residents forced to buy "permits" to park outside their homes due to Owen Keegan and friends putiing pay and display on non residential streets forcing commuters to move onto residential areas for parking. The real reason why DCC hasn't brought in major "park and ride" facilities for commuters, they raise so much money from the various parking stealth tax's

This is claptrap.

On main routes any parking is discouraged. In the city centre and in suburban centres, Pay and Display (P&D) is used to discourage all day parking and improve access for those who need to use their own transport (deliveries, people working on-site, etc.). I live on a square between two QBCs, you can bet it there were no permit / P&D parking, it would be full of commuter’s cars all day. Further, Park and Ride mostly needs to be implemented by the three Dublin county councils not the city council. Discouraging all day parking means only those who need their own transport will use it and fairly everyone else can use public transport.

Residents must have a referendum before permit parking is introduced to their area. Further, residents are (a) paying for use of the public road (b) paying for a clamping removal service used to improve their area, by discouraging all day parking.

By the way I am declaring a conflict of interest insofar as I made a detailed submission on the current edition of the Parking by-laws, as a member of the City Council's Transport and Traffic Strategic Planning Committee.

ozmo · 21-11-2003 10:45PM

Originally posted by Victor
The reason they pay less tax is they aren't entitled toa social welfare pension (because they get state pensions).

They pay half PRSI - but this entitles them to no dentist that a full PRSI would get, or unemployment benefit (if they somehow actually manage to get them selves sacked)

Victor · 21-11-2003 11:55PM

Sorry, just to clarify, all new recruits to the civil service since approimately 1994 pay full PRSI.

MadsL · 22-11-2003 12:46AM

Pay and Display (P&D) is used to discourage all day parking

Err...so clamping a vehicle in a parking bay serves what purpose? Other than you can get away with charging a heftier fine.

Victor · 22-11-2003 12:51AM

Originally posted by MadsL
Err...so clamping a vehicle in a parking bay serves what purpose? Other than you can get away with charging a heftier fine.

It discourages commuters from parking in rediential areas.

How about attacking things like this instead

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/2000011?view=Eircomnet

Taxpayers to subsidise punters 'by €50 a meeting' [per punter]
From:The Irish Independent
Friday, 21st November, 2003

Brendan Keenan

TAXPAYERS will subsidise racegoers with more than €50 for each race meeting they attend next year, Labour Party leader Pat Rabbitte claimed last night.

Attacking a 50pc increase in state funding for horse racing to €67m in the estimates for 2004, Mr Rabbitte said this amounts to a subsidy of €51.46 for each of the 1.3m attendances at race meetings.

"Most of this subsidy goes to tax-free prizes, many of them pocketed by some of the richest people in Ireland, for whom the tax residency laws were liberalised by the present Taoiseach," he said during a debate in Waterford on Ireland's economic prospects.

"On average, prizes in Ireland for horse-racing are now 50pc greater than in Britain or France, three times greater than in Italy and five times greater than in Germany."

He believed it was right for the Government to subsidise sport. "But the racing figures compare with a study suggesting that the average subsidy per spectator/participant is about €9 in the case of GAA, €6 in the case of soccer and €4 in the case of rugby."

On the economy, the Labour leader said there were now fewer people employed in manufacturing than when Fianna Fail and the Progressive Democrats came into office.

"Thus, while Ireland did well out of the last wave of growth in the US and world economies, poor management by the Government parties has left us in a much less advantageous position when it comes to the next wave of growth.

"The end of the boom was accelerated and worsened by domestic overheating. This had the effect of undermining the international competitiveness of the Irish economy, as can be seen in the shake out in manufacturing jobs and other pointers to a deterioration in competitiveness," he said.

"I believe that the economic and political choices made in Ireland in recent times are those of a government whose motivation is not economic at all, but political; whose philosophy is petty and mean-spirited; whose outlook lacks all vision; whose strategy is short-sighted and self-centred; and whose politics deliberately aim to appeal to the worst instincts," Mr Rabbitte said.

Spot the Hidden Tax!

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