Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

I just went back and watched the full interview from last night. My God, yer man was like a dog with a bone with his insistence on cross-community consent. It's like he thought it was some sort of "GOTCHA" moment.

MON was very impressive. As you would expect from any politician on top of their brief with a clear message.

Much like how they shipped out the (at the time not signed not completed) trade agreement announcement with Australia when Boris was struggling at the G7, the tories have once again shipped out a potential trade deal to try and distract from the boozy partygate.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61604784

Slight problem.

it's not a trade deal its a MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) has no actual legal framework and of course could have been done even as an EU member

it's such a complete non story being pushed that you can actually with a quick google find another MOU done between educational bodies in the UK, USA and Ireland https://www.newsletter.co.uk/business/consumer/a-memorandum-of-understanding-has-been-signed-3707987

But quick they need a brexit win to distract from the fact their brexit king is a boozy w*nker.

BBC unquestioningly parroting fake news / government propaganda. Sad.

Is this the first call from the Conservative MP for a return to the single market?

"And then there’s the unresolved issue of the Irish border. Current plans to bin the Northern Ireland Protocol could trigger a trade war with the EU (causing further economic harm) and is alienating the United States, our closest security ally.

As a recent YouGov poll indicates, this is not the Brexit most people imagined, with the majority believing Brexit has gone badly. There is appetite to make improvements – not U-turns but course corrections.

In a nutshell, all these challenges would disappear if we dare to advance our Brexit model by re-joining the EU single market (the Norway model). Leaving this aspect of the EU was not on the ballot paper, nor called for by either the Prime Minister or Nigel Farage during the 2016 referendum. There was, however, much discussion about returning to a “common market,” which is exactly what I propose."

A common sense solution that will help their economy and solve the NIP in one swoop. I do find it interesting that this is the first call for a return to the single market. There will be opposition to it from the usual suspects but as the country keeps suffering those voices should become more and more marginalised.

Thats all well and good but EFTA would have to accept them and with the amount of **** they have pulled the last 6 years I doubt that's gonna happen.

I don't think it would be EFTA membership though. That would be too integrated to try and sell. They will sell it as common market access only. The fine print will read about following rules and regulations set by the EU but a savvy leader could sell the fact that they can leave at any time to try and soothe the baying mob.

He mentions in the piece they have cut way from the political union and single market membership is not a political union.

So that would be a whole seperate negotiation and system then similar to what the Swiss have setup which the EU have vowed to never do again due to how complex and time consuming it was which they definitely will not get into with perfidious albion so in reality its EFTA or bust

It’s bizarre really.

Can’t possibly imagine the reason behind these “unusual gains”

It all comes down to choices. Choices that the UK felt they didn't have to make since they were the UK and thus too important.

These 'solutions' are nothing new. It was all laid out to them in easy to read graph immediately after the ref result.

The Uk chose the hardest of options as none of the others were worth the choices they would have to make.

And they still think like that. Hence them looking to simply ditch the NIP.

Yeah, same as every other EU country. Not 50k of them though.

So the 2nd Tory politician is mentioning joining the single market. It has to start somewhere and it seems like it has now, the planting of the seed of an idea that become reality later on. In fairness to Hannan (never thought I would ever say that) he was always saying they would be part of the single market. But it seems like he is not intelligent enough to understand what being part of the single market means in terms of the EU membership and being out of the EU.

But Hannan is basically still stuck at his and David Davis's "cherries and cake" 2016 view of what this would mean. The UK will select the single market bits that they like. The EU will accept and acknowledge that UK standards and divergences must be fine because the UK says so. The UK will have the opt outs that it wants, above and beyond Norway and Switzerland, and will contribute and concede less, because they are terribly important.

The only difference I see here from his 2016 fireworks-ramblings is that he now talks about UK joining EFTA. Whereas before EFTA members (and Ireland, Netherlands and Denmark) would have been so impressed by the UK deal that they would have decided to become vassals under UK leadership.

Is this chatter about rejoining the single market an attempt to signal a change in approach, or is it rather that proponents of Brexit realise it's turned out a mess and are trying to save face? I suspect it's the latter.

'Brexit could have worked if they had done this instead...'

Few of them will ever bring themselves to admit that it was a doomed enterprise.

For Hannan, I'm sure that's what it is. His Brexit would have worked and please forget that he has advocated multiple different types of Brexit, including the Johnson variant, over the years.

Similarly, the entire spectrum of Leavers have other (conflicting) visions of how it could all have worked perfectly if others had just believed enough/shouted louder etc. For most of these, including Hannan, I don't see this as any sincere attempt to change anything. Just to explain why it isn't as wonderful as they had promised. Frost running with the "stabbed in the back" line being the most irritating.

I think the Tobias Elwood comments on Single Market are different, even if still being cake-ist. But Elwood is a former Remainer who backed Rory Stewart over Johnson for PM. Perhaps this is a more long term move, with expectation that Conservatives will slowly return to rationalism and he will have first mover advantage. And that he can ultimately "sell" joining the Single Market, but not the EU as a shrewd victory for UK negotiations.

Probably just 'a queue, yesterday'. Could be Dublin!

Probably their stock airport queue photo.

In fairness papers can't be expected to send a photographer down to these airports for a quick photo or to pay a freelance/local paper for one when any auld queue photo will do.