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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    There appears to be an appetite to change doctrine from having "tripwire" forces in the frontier states to larger ones. Either way, while I agree it would make a massive difference to those populations near the frontline, a full NATO response would fairly shorthand deal with anything Russia tries to do. (and we saw how long it took to build up the forces to invade Ukraine I might add).

    Also the EU just isn't going to be leading the response, for good or ill. It is not a military alliance.

    I would like greater unity in the response, but its not there for various reasons - not least being that the hardships from the measures are not equally distributed. Achieving unity takes time, it is both a weakness and a strength but overall more the latter I believe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Because they have not been forced to disconnect from Russian oil

    Hungary and Czechias hardships have not happened yet - thats the point. If they were to be cut off Russian oil pipelines they would suffer a state of emergency. Hungary has no ports to import oil en mass, nor do they even have the refineries to deal with oil from other sources. Czechia and Croatia would have similar issues with sourcing and refining respectively.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,849 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    Apparently Hollywood actor Chevy Chase was seen on flight to Moscow a few weeks ago boasting that he landed “the role of a lifetime” and that “people will soon be calling me Mr. President”. Coincidence ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭zv2


    Kasparov understands the Russian mentality very well.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,270 ✭✭✭✭briany


    They've been shite-talking since the start of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, or this phase of Russia's invasion, to be more specific.

    It's a transparent attempt to drum hatred and fear of the West into the mind of ordinary Russians, in an effort to keep them behind the current actions in Ukraine.

    It's two fold as well because we see these clips and think, 'this is what Russia want to do. Let's get them!', and the Russians can then use this to give their own propaganda more weight. It's a feedback loop of hostility.

    The West cannot control what is being said on Russian state media, but it can at least refrain from wars of words and escalating hostilities any more than is necessary whatsoever. Let the sanctions and weapons to Ukraine do the talking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭shivaz



    BERLIN, June 1 (Reuters) - Germany will supply Ukraine with the IRIS-T air defence system, Chancellor Olaf Scholz said, following pleas from Kyiv and German opposition parties to step up heavy weapons deliveries.

    Scholz feeling the pressure.The big question in When?

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-send-iris-t-air-defence-system-ukraine-scholz-2022-06-01/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭shivaz


    I think it's deep within the German psyche not to fight after the wars.They are been shown like Kenny Rogers said " sometimes you gotta fight to be a man"

    The IRS-T is a nice system to have.Aircraft,Helicopters,cruise missiles and can get past the decoy flare systems



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭thomil


    I'll believe it when I see it. At this point, I wouldn't trust Scholz nor anyone else in the SPD to give me the time of day! That bastard has done more damage to Germanys reputation in three months than I thought a single person would be able to do in a decade. For the first time in my 40 years on this planet, I'm actually ashamed of my nationality.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    To be fair, I think it's blatantly obvious that the German public does not agree with what's happening at the top. I just hope the next election reinforces that



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭shivaz


    The Swiss need a kick in the hole.SWITZERLAND has banned Denmark from supplying Piranha III armoured personnel carriers to Ukraine, as reported on Wednesday, June 1

    ‘they do not want to supply weapons to conflict zones itself’ and would prefer to ‘stay neutral’.

    The Swiss Federal Council is expected to make a decision on Friday, June 3


    https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/06/01/switzerland-denmark-piranha-iii-ukraine/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    Even the Guardian Opinion section is saying the sanctions aren't working and are hurting people.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    Sanctions remind me of the complete global policy **** up of lockdown policy.

    Have to wonder if too much political capital spent now to turn this ship around? Our great leaders are useless, especially the Brussels types.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭shivaz


    If the sanctions are not working then why did Putin want them lifted in exchange for the lifting of the Black sea blockade.He could have asked for something else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Do people expect the cutting off of Russia to be cost-free? That is not going to happen.

    The sanctions aren't or shouldn't be expected to get Russia to change course in my own opinion, or if people expect that from the sanctions they are hoping in vain given how determined Putin + the regime seem to be on pursuing this.

    They will reduce our dependence on Russia and hopefully slowly strangle Russia's economy, cripple it's ability to build up its military, and make sure it can't go "on tour" once again in a Baltic state or Poland some years down the road.

    The only thing that's gong to stop them in my view is combination of everything blowing up and getting too much: Ukraine's resistance/the help it gets from abroad, the economic sanctions + international pressure on Russia, and perhaps an outburst of serious Russian public anger if Putin is forced to try and put the population/economy on more of a "total war" footing to just to keep on going in Ukraine. In summary making the price to carry on with this just too high for Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,521 ✭✭✭zv2


    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    Yeah, there seems to be a disconnect between the desire to defend a democratic state from invasion and actually having to bear some fairly minor personal pain as a result. Which feels pretty insulting to the Ukrainians actually fighting and dying.

    Maybe our politicians aren't doing a good job of explaining this to us. But it is most definitely worth it if it muzzles Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭thomil


    It's not that. For me, this whole thing goes a lot deeper. Germany and its population occupy a special place in history, due to the horrendous crimes committed and due to the fact that we were still invited back into the global community. I was raised in the spirit that we as a nation have a special responsibility not to let the horrible events of 33-45 repeat themselves. That means using every means possible to prevent another war, but at the same time standing up to those countries that use military force to redraw the borders in Europe and not standing idly by when concentration camps are set up again, entire districts depopulated and deported. This is where we're failing big time at the moment.

    Germany, in its post-war constitution, is prohibited from using military force in anything other than self defense or treaty obligations, so I get that a direct involvement in Ukraine would not only be problematic from a political point of view, but possibly illegal. I also get that the state of the Bundeswehr is atrocious, to put it mildly, and that a lot of weapons are needed just to get that force to something approaching an acceptable state of readiness. However, Germany has a very capable defense industry, and at the very least, Germany should be expediting delivery of their products to Ukraine. The very fact that not just the Chancellor, but the minister of defense and senior officials within the Ministry of Defense, need to be publicly shamed into doing so is just infuriating for me. We should know better and do better!

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    do you genuinely expect German voters at the next election to care even a tiny bit about how Germany supported Ukraine! Like every other electorate they will vote on economic and social matters, not geo-politics.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭Hobgoblin11



    Deutschland unterstützt die Ukraine- Germany back Ukraine

    Dundalk, Co. Louth



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭thomil


    The "good" thing is that Scholz is torpedoing himself there as well. His domestic policy is turning out to be just as disastrous as his foreign policy. He and his cabinet look to be singularly unable to address the issue of inflation, the ongoing collapse of the German healthcare system and numerous other issues. Basically, every SPD led ministry seems to be foundering. The only ones who seem to be doing a semi-decent job at the moment are the Greens, which is a sentence I'd never thought I'd write.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    The Germans have been the bulk funders of the EU for decades now, yet retain strong support for it.

    Which would knock your theory into a cocked hat....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,043 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Give up the fracking talk will ya. It's a **** show of a method of getting gas out. Closing nuclear was and is a mental decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭thomil


    Bit of an update regarding the IRIS-T system. German military blog "Augen geradeaus" reports that these will be brand-new units fresh from the manufacturer. It looks like Germany is planning to redirect a battery (3 octuple launchers, 1 radar vehicle, 1 command post) currently being assembled for Egypt to Ukraine at short notice.

    The manufacturer, Diehl Defence, currently has the capacity to produce two batteries a year but is apparently looking to double this capacity. If this goes through, and given we're talking about Scholz who's announcing that, it is a BIG if, Ukraine might see a steady supply of these systems even beyond the first battery. As I said, loads of "Ifs" still surrounding that, but this has the potential to be a game changer, especially since Ukraine seems to be running low on S-300 missiles.


    Edit - Here's the link to the source: Deutschland will Flugabwehrsystem an die Ukraine liefern – Iris-T SLM aus deutscher Produktion – Augen geradeaus! (German, obviously)

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Germany gets far more back from EU than it pays in, however it comes via private industry (German businesses selling to other EU members). Level of German trade surplus vastly exceeds their EU contributions. They would be mad not to support it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    It can a **** showif unregulated, which is mainly what happened in the US when Bush changed it so and it got a horrible reputation. It can be done safely, it's just that a successful media smear campagin has lodged that it's awful in the minds of the public. Much like what what was done with nuclear, and some of that was actual real state sanctioned legitimate Russian disinformation campaign over long period of time to continue their oil and gas sales. As well as other oil/gas lobbies.


    At lot of "anti green" technologies are fine and many of the "green" solutions cause far more emissions and cost due to their need for storage but just call the people who say it a climate change denier (which is a mental term when you think about it) and silence them.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    The Guardian "comment is free" section is basically the opinion of whatever random person wrote the column. They often have wildly competing opinions in it. It is not an Editorial.

    So basically your point is that "Simon Jenkins says sanctions aren't working" and I don't care what he thinks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,666 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I think the only game-changer in Ukraine will be something that can target the Russian artillery safely. ie. when Ukraiinian howitzers can chuck shells at the Russian howitzers while remaining out of range. I thought the 777s were supposed to bring that about, maybe I've misunderstood something.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭charlie_says


    Oh I don't expect it to be free, quite the opposite I expect doing something like that would be very expensive and ultimately kill people. I think it's a stupid idea.

    EU leaders seemed to have settled on a policy that is simultanously stupid, easy to get around, as various countires in EU and other states will just sell on the Russian energy, and will raise the prices for everyone which will enrich Russia further so they can blow up the weapons that are supplied to Ukraine with essentially free unlimited artillery shells.



This discussion has been closed.
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