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BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,838 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    I accept that but that's about calculating their chances of actually securing the top job if they moved against Johnson. Your previous post seemed to imply the Tory top dogs wouldn't take the leadership now even if it was handed to them on a plate. Anyone who takes over from Johnson now goes down in history as a British PM, even if it's just for a couple of inglorious years like Gordon Brown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Indeed.

    But that's got nothing to do with the point that's being alluded to.

    The SNP now are to politically savvy to fall for the Tories shítetalk.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,681 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Rawr


    If Scotland was out of the UK, the Tories would need less seats to win a majority and would almost guarantee wins for them unless they lost a huge amount seats.

    But that’s a potential poison chalice, since I feel the main reason they’re so opposed to the Northern Ireland Protocol is that is contrasts a part of the UK that has been shielded from many of the issues with Brexit (showing it up to be the thick idea that it is). An independent Scotland would be making a beeline to join the customs union and eventually the EU, which would bring that contrast even closer to home. Not sure how Scotland in the customs union would practically work with a long land border with England (might even be a hard border).

    But I doubt the SNP could manage to sell the idea of a coalition with Tories to their voters, even if independence was on the cards. Bojo & Co. simply cannot be trusted. Their word is worthless.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,681 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I don't see it. They've already rigged the system securely enough so that they don't need Scottish votes. The SNP has devoured the Labour vote in any case. There's also the issue of North Sea Oil and losing any revenue from Scotland. Finally, nobody wants to preside over the breakup of the union.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No as it would cause other issues across the board to be the ones to oversee the break up of the union.

    I know that the unionists in the north end up under the bus at the earliest opportunity when needed, but they are still a useful tool for the tories when needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    Has the great leader got a super injunction out in relation to the great leaders partner. I see it mentioned on Twitter.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It may well be in Boris' interests to call for a leadership challenge; win it - then he cannot be challenged for another year.

    It'll solidify his position, and he can move forward from this whole Partygate nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭O'Neill


    How can you seriously run a Government when the entire oposition wants you to resign and a growing list of MPs from your own party also wants you to resign? Especially with everything going on at the moment.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's the case with most governments.

    As I said earlier, during the Tony Blair regime, the opposition was always against him - and upwards of half the UK population, too.

    If you have a binary system of governmental administration, at least half if not more of the people are against you - at any time, for any reason.

    Did you seriously expect a Conservative government backed by Labour and 75% of the UK population?

    Such a thing cannot exist by definition.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,947 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    This is absolute bullshit, regularly in most modern democracies approval pops above 50% at least for a small time after the election, the problem the UK has and you well know due to it being explained numerous times in other threads is FPtP is entirely undemocratic. In the last 100 years only 1 government has been elected by a majority of voters and it was the tory-lib dem coalition. If you start off from under 50% popular opinion at the election there's no chance you will ever get above 50% as over half the country will always remember they didn't even vote for you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭cml387


    It seems to me that there is now a momentum behind the heave against Johnson. Andrea Leadsome has come out with a letter which, eventually, seems to lay the blame for partygate at the PM. There is increasing noise from the papers about another Carrie party, and of course these wierdd twitter rumours.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sure, "weird twitter rumours" are the last bastion of objective truth in today's world. Totally reliable source right there.

    Twitter makes up rumours about people for clicks, chat, and headlines. They mean precious little.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    if the opposition didn't want the PM to resign, then they wouldn't be the opposition🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,684 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Jesus wept this is from one of his supporters in parliament.

    Urging caution among Tory MPs considering submitting letters of no confidence in the prime minister, the science minister, George Freeman, has told the BBC’s World At One that Boris Johnson “didn’t stand as the patron saint of virtue” and that “people knew who they were electing”.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's true, though, isn't it?

    Everyone, including myself, knows what we're getting with Boris Johnson.

    The General Election wasn't about electing the next Pope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,947 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Indeed which is why a majority of voters voted against him and his party.

    So where do you draw the line on elected officials breaking the law? Your comment about not electing the pope obviously means your okay with him breaking some laws so there must be a line?

    You couldn't honestly just be supporting him blindly and saying whatever it takes to try and ignore his massive shortcomings and not have thought at all any further about what your comments imply...... youve nooooo history of that.....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It doesn't matter.

    That's the electoral system the UK has, and we have to respect the outcome of elections.

    I have absolutely no doubt that if Corbyn or Starmer won by the same margin, you wouldn't be making the same noises.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,796 ✭✭✭Hoop66




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,947 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I absolutely would, FPtP is undemocratic no matter who is in power, once again in the last 100 years they have only had 1 government elected by a majority and it was a tory lib dem coalition. Conversely though I bet you would be making exactly the opposite arguments you've been about excusing Boris actions if it was Starmer or Corbyn whold been caught breaking the laws numerous times while thousands of people died alone.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,878 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The rumours floating around now are that there are enough letters to get rid of Johnson but that he may call a vote of confidence in him before they can be acted upon.

    Another rumour out there currently is from Paul Brand (of ITV) is that Johnson is bribing his critics...




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The majority of voters did not vote for Olaf Scholz, Emmanuel Macron or Michael Martin either.

    What an undemocratic crap hole Europe must be



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,947 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    The majority of voters did absolutely vote for the governments that have been formed by Scholz and Martin and yes the majority of Voters did vote for Macron, 58.5% of the second round to be precise.

    However as I have repeatedly said only 1 government in the last 100 years has been voted for by a majority of voters in the UK.

    Looking forward to whatever bad faith arguments you have left though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,684 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    @[Deleted User] either through ignorance or purposely doesn't seem to understand how voting systems work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 571 ✭✭✭Stanley 1


    David Cameron called it well when he said BoJo was like " A greased piglet" and he should know having been around him in their informative years at Eton where BoJo was a known bully, Cameron may well have suffered or lost his male virginity, who knows but they don't like each other.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Or maybe I’m just a lot more realistic than others who seem to think FPTP is undemocratic compared to other systems.

    i note you didn’t try to counter any of my claims and just resorted to the ad hominem, as you always do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,684 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well the French system I won't defend but Macron did and didn't get 50% depending on how you want to look at it. Who knows what he would have gotten in a better system.

    The current governments of Ireland and Germany do have a majority of voters which the Tories don't which is the whole reason why people here are saying it's more democratic here than the UK.

    I honestly believe you are smart enough to know this too and you are just trying to deceive.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How is it democratic when the party that got most first preference votes isn’t in power?

    people get elected because of what they aren’t rather than what they are, become king makers and land cushy cabinet jobs.

    it isn’t democracy, it is the big parties naming on to power whatever the costs.

    the system is designed to maintain the status quo which is why nothing gets done, nothing works and the civil service are left to feather their own nests and Rob the country blind.

    pr-stv is why every single government function in this country is broken, from public transport to healthcare to water.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,684 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    You don't understand because you don't want to because it suits you.

    One obvious difference is that in the Irish system Martin or whoever can be taken down by his coalition partners if they don't agree because the government not the party have the majority. Johnson has a minority majority which governments with proper democracy can't enjoy.



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