It's all falling apart alarmingly fast for Boris Johnson across the water. How long you reckon he has left as British Prime Minister? Hours surely?
How many parties are they talking about now? I've lost count.
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Cue Sunaks line that its definitely not a windfall tax but an energy profits levy on windfaLL profits that are being taxed by the levy........
If you think this is hard left you may want to go and have a read. This is liberal politics not socialist ones.
The recent Local elections and current opinion polls would suggest that the LP is very far from utter destruction. So far from utter destruction are they that the Tories party are not inacting LP ideas such as the Winndfall tax.
Remind me what was the Tories position in 2019, and compare that to what it is today?
Tories, and only the Tories, have made a complete and utter mess of Brexit. While it was always a bad idea, they have managed to to obtain the worst possible outcome. Effectively the Tories were, just like Brexit itself, elected on a lie. "Get Brexit done' and "oven ready deal'. Neither of which were true or have been caried out.
The 2019 GE was about the utter destruction of the Labour Party, right through the heart of its own lands and beyond.
@Leroy42
Labour lost the red wall seats because they said they would lok to continue negotiations with the EU, the Tories claimed they had an oven ready deal. The LP have been proved to be completely correct and now the line the Tories are running with is only they can renegotiate with the EU!
Labour's 2019 position on Brexit was a commitment-free fudge, and the fence-sitting between the northern Leavers and the Remainder youth made him a (no pun intended) sitting duck. Ok in 2017 but not 2019.
"Labour may also have nothing to offer".
Well, if the choice is between internecine warfare within the Labour Party over the definition of womanhood, and the Conservative Party; I think I'll go with the latter, especially if, as you say, Labour has nothing to offer anyway.
I really would love to know how Brexit is Labour's fault. The Tories promised a Brexit referendum if they won the 2015 election, they set the agenda then when it pased they had to run with it. All the implementation of Brexit has been under a Tory government (which has been in power since 2010) so I really would love to know how anyone could feel that Labour 'threw the Red Wall under the bus with Brexit'.
Debating different opinions is one thing but that is such a leap that i struggle to see the basis for it.
Ah ok, so it's simply partygate that is the problem. This of course is despite the Tories continually telling everyone that people have moved on?
So you think people are making political decisions based on whether Johnson had some cake, but talking about peoples rights and other issues are a massive turn off?
People are turning against Johnson because, as you admit yourself in terms of immigration, he is proving to be completely incapable of doing his job. His own party are openly talking about getting rid of him. No longer defending him, but rather making the case that somebody else might be even worse.
The big problem of the Tories is that they are out of ideas. They have no clue how to deal with the rising inflation, impact of Brexit, etc. They have seemingly no idea on how to make things better for people and thus they are facing into the next election with almost nothing to offer.
LP may also have nothing to offer, but as with Johnson, people are willing to go with anybody that says that they can make it better. And Johnson, and the Tories cannot make that promise as it is on their watch that the problems arose.
Labour will hoover up support as long as the Partygate stuff is going on. It's a temporary reaction.
But at a GE, when Starmer and all those dopey debates surface - as I'm sure they will - the British people will choose to opt for the Conservatives.
The Tories have thrown the entire UK under the bus. The Tories have now thrown the GE result aside to argue that the deal they campaigned on is actually not what the people want and they will decide what it should be.
In terms of dopey debates. It is the Tories that continually go on about Culture wars and woke. The LP are busy calling for help for the Cost of Living crisis, windfall tax, which belated the Tories finally accepted but of course made so many provisions that it is little more than PR.
Currently the LP are 10/11 points clear in the polls. The Tories lost 500 seats in the local elections. If LP are a laughing stock then serious questions need to be asked of Johnson as to why they are not only gaining ground but are looking more and more likely to win to the next election.
That may well be true, but it doesn't sink to the gutter level of intellectual vacuousness that we see with the Labour Party.
Left-wing politics is dominated by the middle class and entitled students having dopey debates about non-existent issues, certainly not issues that the ordinary working class think about; a sick combination of the politics of hate and envy and division. Whilst the Labour Party is tearing itself asunder with these manufactured debates, the Conservative Party is stepping up to listen to those same working class people that the Labour Party have thrown under the bus.
The LP threw the Red Wall under the bus with Brexit. They're throwing them under the bus with these dopey debates that don't affect them. And they'll continue to haemorrhage support if they continue along this ridiculous trajectory.
As I said earlier, the Labour Party is a joke and a laughing stock.
You don't see the Conservative party or indeed Boris Johnson tying themselves up in knots over arrant nonsense like this.
They just tie themselves up in other nonsense instead.
Labour are currently entrenched in a bitter civil war over how to define a woman; Stella Creasy on the one hand, and Annaliese Dodds on the other. Hah, even Keir Starmer himself refuses to voice which side of the fence he's on. The party is a joke and a laughing stock. No wonder the British public overwhelmingly rejected this stupidity at the General Election.
Oh yeah, this is the party that concerns itself with ordinary, working people and their interests? Really!?
Labour aren't even kinda left any more. Never mind "hard".
🤣
LOL "hard left" firstly Labour in the UK are not hard left, thanks to FPtP the UK doesnt have a viable hard left party like most other modern democracies.
Secondly calling me hard left because I dont like the Tories in the UK is absurd, check my post history if you want, ive long supported FG and regularly disagree and make fun of the likes of SF, PBP and Solidarity if that's still what they are even calling themselves.
The difference however is I dont think FG are flawless and can do no wrong like you seem to with Boris and the tories.
You can argue against facts all you want but there is no question across anyone who knows what they are talking about that PR-STV is one of if not the most representative way of electing a government. You claim its about big parties clinging onto power and yet its the one voting system thats gives the biggest chance to smaller parties and independents. FPtP makes it virtually impossible for smaller parties and independents to get elected. Take UKIP in the 2015 UK general election, they received 12.6% of all votes and yet won no seats, that would not happen under PR-STV. Conversely look at how well they and the Brexit party did in EU elections run under PR-STV they always won a ton of seats.
If you really want to understand the differences watch the best explainers out there on FPtP
and STV
Who here has said they don’t except the will of the British people at the last British election ? Who’s they exactly that you talk about. The shambles of Brexit(and let’s be honest it has been) is due to the British public voting on something that they and the politicians advocating for it hadn’t a clue what would happen, and given how much of a mess it is six years on proves that the Brexit referendum was a badly thought out knee jerk reaction to placate the ERG wing of the conservatives.
Marina on top form, as always.
They want you to get sucked into a rabbit hole about how Johnson securing a thumping majority is somehow illegitimate. Barking on about percentages and fluid concepts of fairness and all that rubbish.
They're wrong, and cannot accept that the UK population voted in overwhelming number for a Conservative majority after the shambles they manufactured by refusing to allow the Brexit vote to be implemented.
And perhaps even more frustrating for them, Johnson is likely to win a confidence vote and stay on as Prime Minister.
Many on the hard-left are motivated by hatred and dislike of others with whom they disagree, most particularly Conservative politicians. A cursory survey of this thread demonstrates precisely that; an incessant hatred of their political opponents. This is unhealthy stuff, it really is.
That's part of the reason why the UK population gave Johnson the majority he needed; and it's why hard-left socialist rubbish was wholesale rejected by exactly the same people.
But they cannot accept it, so they waffle on about percentages and irrelevant nonsense like that as a way to somehow legitimise the opposition that were already rejected by the UK electorate.
Minority majority = 43% of the vote but over 50% of the seats. In fact in 2019 43% got the Tories an 80 seat majority which is a minority majority.
As for partygate you are gonna have to try someone else for your rabbithole.
The difference is, in the Irish system partygate would never have seen the light of day.
the coalition partners would t bring the government down, because they all know they will get fucked out of it at the next election.
what the duck is a minority majority? The Tories have a sizeable majority last I looked.
You don't understand because you don't want to because it suits you.
One obvious difference is that in the Irish system Martin or whoever can be taken down by his coalition partners if they don't agree because the government not the party have the majority. Johnson has a minority majority which governments with proper democracy can't enjoy.
How is it democratic when the party that got most first preference votes isn’t in power?
people get elected because of what they aren’t rather than what they are, become king makers and land cushy cabinet jobs.
it isn’t democracy, it is the big parties naming on to power whatever the costs.
the system is designed to maintain the status quo which is why nothing gets done, nothing works and the civil service are left to feather their own nests and Rob the country blind.
pr-stv is why every single government function in this country is broken, from public transport to healthcare to water.
Well the French system I won't defend but Macron did and didn't get 50% depending on how you want to look at it. Who knows what he would have gotten in a better system.
The current governments of Ireland and Germany do have a majority of voters which the Tories don't which is the whole reason why people here are saying it's more democratic here than the UK.
I honestly believe you are smart enough to know this too and you are just trying to deceive.
Or maybe I’m just a lot more realistic than others who seem to think FPTP is undemocratic compared to other systems.
i note you didn’t try to counter any of my claims and just resorted to the ad hominem, as you always do.
David Cameron called it well when he said BoJo was like " A greased piglet" and he should know having been around him in their informative years at Eton where BoJo was a known bully, Cameron may well have suffered or lost his male virginity, who knows but they don't like each other.
@[Deleted User] either through ignorance or purposely doesn't seem to understand how voting systems work.
The majority of voters did absolutely vote for the governments that have been formed by Scholz and Martin and yes the majority of Voters did vote for Macron, 58.5% of the second round to be precise.
However as I have repeatedly said only 1 government in the last 100 years has been voted for by a majority of voters in the UK.
Looking forward to whatever bad faith arguments you have left though.
The majority of voters did not vote for Olaf Scholz, Emmanuel Macron or Michael Martin either.
What an undemocratic crap hole Europe must be
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