Looking to build a new mid-range rig

byte · 17-05-2022 09:28PM #1

1. What is your budget? €1,600 or some more if I felt it was worth it.

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? General gaming

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? No, I have Win10 Pro that I hope I can transfer from existing PC.

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? SoundBlaster audio card (PCIe) and then just SSD and HDDs. Oh, and a Samsung BD drive...

5. Do you need a monitor? Not immediately.

5a. If yes, what size do you need. [19'/20'/22'/24'/etc.]

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? [1920x1080/1440x900/etc.] [Yes/No]

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? No

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Not overly bothered.

8. How can you pay? Debit card.

9. When are you purchasing? [In next week or so

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Hope to build myself...

CPU wise, I was initially thinking of a R5 5600X, but have since been reading that the i5 12600K might be a better buy longterm, but with a newer 1700 socket.

GPU: I was hoping for RTX3070 or 3070Ti if price was right. Something to be middling for a number of years.

As I'd need a drive bay, which is rare enough on cases now, I was leaning towards a Fractal Focus G ATX case. https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/focus/focus-g/black/

Mobo, I'd like to have an ATX board with plenty of connectivity. Not interested in LED lighting that much.

I'm half wondering if I'd be best going the direction of PC Specialist or a site I saw mentioned here yesterday, AWD-IT who charge Irish VAT. It'll depend on the price difference I suppose. My current build started with faulty RAM which was a bit of a pain to rectify at the time!

Cheers!

K.O.Kiki · 17-05-2022 11:35PM

At 1080p the 12600K is faster by 7%. At 1440p or higher, it doesn't matter as you'll be GPU bottlenecked. I'd still get 5600 as you can get cheaper B550 motherboards for it (e.g. ASUS TUF Gaming B550-PLUS)

byte · 18-05-2022 09:17PM

Thanks for your advice.

I do notice that LGA1700 boards seem more expensive alright. I kinda worry that the B550 is near end of life, but that said, I've never bothered upgrading CPU in previous builds so I'll hardly start now! And funny you mention that ASUS board, is that is one that popped up on my radar one day.

Do you think it advisable to maybe spend the extra on an RTX3080 over the 3070?

God, it's that long since I bought a new PC, I've a lot of picking up to do!

Confused11811 · 19-05-2022 12:05AM

You've decided to build at a good time with regards to availability :-)

You can't really go wrong with either Intel or AMD options. Personally I'd gone with the cheapest Mobo/cpu option and the savings can be used towards a GPU or just back into your pocket.

Regarding the GPU in my opinion it really comes down to Price vs performance . The 3070TI gaming performance isn't far off the 3080. The are different variants of the 3080 , one with 10GB of ram and the other with 12GB of ram. The 12GB is better than the 10gb but not much.

On the AMD side if ray tracing isn't a huge issue for you there are options like the RX6700XT or the much better RX6800, RX6800XT. Price wise it's hard to recommended the 6750XT , RX6900XT or RX6950XT. AMD has some upcoming new drivers that are showing big performance gains so thier offerings are really good comparatively speaking.

You're needs can probably be met with either the RTX3070 or even a RX6700XT but if you get a good price on RX6800 or RX3070TI then they could be a better option.

Availability hasn't been as good for 18 months or longer so you're in a good position to research further.

Jon Doe · 19-05-2022 10:25AM

This is my work machine: slap a decent graphics card and I'm sure you'd be happy with this.

CPU AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
CPU Cooler NOCTUA NH-D15 Chromax Black
Motherboard ASUS PRIME X570-P
SSD Samsung 980 PRO 1TB
RAM Corsair 32GB KIT DDR4 3200MHz CL16 Vengeance LPX

Pick your card at geizhals.eu/?cat=gra16_512

I suggest an AMD card but I like to support an underdog. It's a thing I have against monopolies... :/

K.O.Kiki · 19-05-2022 01:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084238#Comment_119084238

No offense but that's bad advice. ~850eur (more than half OP's budget) on just the CPU, cooler & mobo.

OP can get the guts of a PC (minus GPU) for 200eur less.

PCPartPicker Part List: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/tLqWcb

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600 3.5 GHz 6-Core Processor (€201.83 @ Amazon Deutschland)

CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Freezer A35 A-RGB CPU Cooler (€43.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard (€162.82 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€67.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Case: Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case (€54.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Power Supply: Fractal Design Ion Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€114.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Case Fan: ARCTIC P12 56.3 CFM 120 mm Fan (€5.56 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Total: €651.00

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-05-19 14:39 CEST+0200

Jon Doe · 19-05-2022 05:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084985#Comment_119084985

Sorry I just looked at the OP's +-1600€ limit and ran with it. That machine can be built for 1100€ (especially with 2x8GB which is enough for games) which leaves 500€ for the card.

The CPU AMD Ryzen 9 5950X can be bought for 550€ all over Europe.

PS1: for the love of God whatever you do don't buy a CPU that consumes much more than 100W! Stop promoting this insanity. And for a hassle free experience go with a vendor that assembles and tests the machine for 30-50€.

PS2: the DDR4-3600 is wasted on the Ryzen 5 5600; 3200 is cheaper and is enough.

K.O.Kiki · 19-05-2022 09:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086284#Comment_119086284

You don't buy a 5950X for gaming. It's either 5600 (best value) or 5800X3D (best performance).

Also "less than 100W"? They all use over 100W in multi-threaded - but 5950X would use 60-100% more than a 5600!

550eur buys you a 6600 XT. 1000eur buys you an RTX 3080/RX 6800 XT which is twice as fast!

PS: Ryzen loves fast RAM. DDR4-3600 CL16 is ideal as it runs parallel with Ryzen's 1800MHz Infinity Fabric.

byte · 19-05-2022 10:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084985#Comment_119084985

Thanks everybody for posting suggestions! Plenty to mull over this weekend.

This list from @K.O.Kiki does seem to be in line with what I should go for, I think. Just to note though that the €1600 was a conservative figure and could go up a bit if the benefits warranted it. It'll be a long time before I build another so keen to get it right (or as near as right as it can be these days).

A few musings if I may...

I noticed you recommend Arctic Liquid Freezer II on another thread, is it something I should maybe consider? I've built my last 3 or 4 PC's but have never dealt with liquid coolers before. I don't even know if current CPU's come with stock fans anymore! I'm guessing I'd need some thermal paste too for third party coolers?

I had in mind to get 2x16GB RAM, but maybe 2x8 is enough but at a higher DDR4-3600 speed?

PSU: I have no experience with Fractal PSU's, would they be decent? My current Corsair PSU has survived the past 2 builds, so it was that brand I had in mind, but as I said, I'm well out of the loop on good vs meh hardware.

I'd probably try get a board without the wifi, if there's a price difference, as PC is right beside the router and will be hardwired.

Cheers 🙂

byte · 19-05-2022 10:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087288#Comment_119087288

Hm, I wonder if a 5800X3D? would be worth the extra bucks. Probably not for a casual like me.

I did notice that the TDP of the i5 12600K was nearly double that of the Ryzen 5 5600X (65W) but not sure how relevant these thermal watts are.

Also, interesting on the RAM, something I wouldn't have considered at all, as I was looking at 3000 or 3200, but 2x16GB sticks.

Jon Doe · 19-05-2022 10:43PM

You don't buy a 5950X for gaming. It's either 5600 (best value) or 5800X3D (best performance).

Fair enough :)

Also "less than 100W"? They all use over 100W in multi-threaded - but 5950X would use 60-100% more than a 5600!

Both the 5600 (6c) and 5700X (8c) are 65W, the 5950 is 105W (16c). The "less than 100" remark is just a criticism of CPUs above the i5-12600: they all break the 120W which is just ridiculous - IMHO. 65W is a good power point, 90W for high performance CPU is also OK. But 120~150W? That's getting into AMD FX-8350 territory... that's a scorching hot CPU and I prefer CPU as cool as possible... :)

550eur buys you a 6600 XT. 1000eur buys you an RTX 3080/RX 6800 XT which is twice as fast!

Yeah, I know. In graphics cards territory the more money the better. I don't even suggest anything because it's up to each owns wallet and I really can't tell the difference of anything above 50~60 fps...

PS: Ryzen loves fast RAM. DDR4-3600 CL16 is ideal as it runs parallel with Ryzen's 1800MHz Infinity Fabric.

I think that only applies for overclocking, otherwise why would AMD recommend DDR4-3200?

K.O.Kiki · 19-05-2022 10:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087483#Comment_119087483

5800X3D is the "best" gaming CPU. However, I'm not sure it's worth the 200-300 over a Ryzen 7 5700X / Ryzen 5 5600 when that money is better spent on the GPU or rest of the system, as it's only a 7-10% increase in most scenarios. Go for it if you don't want to replace anything for the next 5 years, though.

TDP rating does not matter, in a sense. However, the 5700X (65W) is a better CPU than the 5800X (105W)(non-3D) as it's 98% as fast while using less power & producing less heat.

Arctic Liquid Freezer II are great IMHO. I use mine in a pull config (fans inside) to reduce noise further. They have a 6 year warranty so Arctic has confidence in them lasting.

Talking of warranty, the Fractal Ion line have 7yrs - which is less than I remembered; I thought it was 10yrs like Corsair RM units! mea culpa They are good units though.

I've run my gaming rig on 16Gb & 32Gb before - never thought 32 was necessary so went back to 16 when I moved to mini-ITX.

Non-WiFi motherboards, can go MSI B550-A Pro or Gigabyte B550 Gaming X / Aorus Elite. Wouldn't recommend a cheap X570 board, the B550s are better in everything but PCI lanes.

RAM, I must've clicked the 3600 CL18 kit instead of 3600 CL16.

byte · 19-05-2022 11:21PM

Thanks for your reply.

I also intended to have an m.2 nvme drive, so was considering the Samsung 970 EVO 1TB, and using my existing 2.5" SSD as a slave/secondary drive, and then my HDD's as less important.

Prices can go mental the more I look and consider, so I had better reign it in a wee bit! So maybe going back to the Ryzen 5600X or maybe the R7 5700X and rule out the 580X3D unfortunately.

There seems to be a spot on top of the Fractal case for liquid cooler so decisions, decisions!

Jon Doe · 20-05-2022 12:16PM

If I were you, I'd consider getting one of these

geizhals.eu/?cat=gehhd&xf=339_2.5%22%7E696_SATA+6Gb%2Fs%7E840_USB+3.1%7E943_1

and use the old sata SSD as an external backup drive.

byte · 23-05-2022 10:10PM

https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/dt8gnt

This is kinda where I am at the moment! Somewhat above budget but meh.

There doesn't seem to be a huge difference between getting the parts and getting PCS to build and test it, probably around €200.

Decisions, decisions!

K.O.Kiki · 23-05-2022 11:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104700#Comment_119104700

The Focus G can't fit a 280mm rad on top, has to be 240 or 360mm (top-mount is recommended).

Samsung 980 Pro 1Tb is overkill for a gaming system IMHO, you're unlikely to ever need its read-write speeds. Either go for a cheap 2Tb or save money with a cheaper 1Tb.

e.g. those extra couple bob are better served going for a better cooler like the Asus Strix or EVGA FTW3 ULTRA.

byte · 23-05-2022 11:22PM

Oh, thanks for the heads-up on the cooler! I hadn't realised that it wouldn't fit that case. I just chose that brand cooler as it's one you recommend.

I'll have to rethink again so, if the SSD is overkill too.

Thanks for the advice.

Jon Doe · 24-05-2022 12:52AM

If I were you I'd replace your mobo with the "ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming 4 ATX AM4 Motherboard (X570 Phantom Gaming 4)" 20€ extra to upgrade the chipset doesn't sound a bad deal to me. The 5600X is a 65W CPU. Are you going to waste your time with overclocking? Or do you need an ultra silent PC? Only in such circumstances should you resort to water cooling...

Also, I'd replace the 980 Pro with these two:

de.pcpartpicker.com/product/n2JwrH/toshiba-internal-hard-drive-dt01aca300

de.pcpartpicker.com/product/TwWfrH/samsung-970-evo-plus-500-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-mz-v7s500bam

The EVO is more than enough for gaming, and you can use the Steam app to move the games you're playing the most atm from the HDD into the SSD. I am assuming that your top 3 doesn't take more than 500GB... :)

Aodhan5000 · 24-05-2022 11:16AM

Do not buy a hard drive in this day and age......

byte · 24-05-2022 08:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119105235#Comment_119105235

It's ASRock that I've got in my current build but I never liked the "BIOS" UI in it. That said, I guess it was reliable enough, though I was steering towards Asus or Gigabyte. What would X570 give me over the 550?

You could be right on the water, I just thought it'd be quieter and maybe better at keeping temps lower than a fan? Plus less weight of a fan and sink hanging off the mobo though I guess that makes no real odds, as manufacturers would've thought of that.

On the SSD, I intend to stick with a minimum 1TB primary drive and if anything, I'd get bigger (other than the fact when they fail, they don't give much warning IME).

I already have 3 1TB HDD's and a 1GB 2.5" SSD, so I'll have to cull 2/3 HDD's perhaps, or move into an enclosure for NAS or something...

K.O.Kiki · 25-05-2022 12:16AM

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3582-amd-chipset-differences-b550-vs-x570-b450-x470-zen-3

Basically, with B550 you get no extra PCIe 4.0 lanes for ultra-fast SSDs, and it can support fewer M.2 & USB 3.1/3.2 devices. On the plus side, most B550 motherboards are better designed than their X570 counterparts (more robust VRMs & better memory overclocking), and there's no tiny chipset fan to contend with.

Both chipsets are limited to 4x SATA, though X570 can use PCIe 4.0 lanes for additional SATA drives.

As I gave in the first part picker list, the Arctic Freezer A35 is probably the best value for a R5-5600 / R7-5700X build (though I understand wanting to overcompensate for even lower thermals/noise).

Jon Doe · 25-05-2022 12:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106237#Comment_119106237

Still has the lowest cost/TB no?... And if your use case is mostly sequential access and very little random 4k r/w... why not?

Jon Doe · 25-05-2022 12:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109134#Comment_119109134

I was steering towards Asus or Gigabyte

I think Asrock is a subsidiary of Asus, a no-thrills brand.

What would X570 give me over the 550?

Much better IO. Totally worth the 20€ difference.

tech4gamers.com/b550-vs-x570/

techedged.com/b550-vs-x570/

You could be right on the water, I just thought it'd be quieter and maybe better at keeping temps lower than a fan?

You are right on that account, but you just need quiet *enough*. Do you use headphones? Is there a grandma sleeping in the computer room? Could you use the cash diff to up the specs on some other component? Is the machine to be taken to LAN parties, ans so the vanity factor must be considered? All good questions that only you can answer... :)

Plus less weight of a fan and sink hanging off the mobo though I guess that makes no real odds, as manufacturers would've thought of that.

That is a factor, and you would expect the manuf to think of that... But my 2700 got stuck in its slot somehow and I'm 80% sure I'm not to blame... That hunk of copper hanging on the side looks mighty suspicious... But well as long as it works :D

I already have 3 1TB HDD's and a 1GB 2.5" SSD, so I'll have to cull 2/3 HDD's perhaps, or move into an enclosure for NAS or something...

2.5" SSDs are always useful to speed up a friend's old laptop: replace the 5400 hdd, reinstall windows and you got yourself a happy friend... :P

Try to sell the 3x1GB HDDs on the 2nd hand market. If they are in good condition you may be able to sling then for 20~30€ each. Then you can get yourself a 3~4GB drive for 60~80€.

Lumen · 26-05-2022 07:12AM

In the last year or so I have built two SFF gaming PCs, one 10G Intel with a 3070 FE, air cooled running at 1440p, and one 12G Intel with a Palit 3080, mix of air and AIO, running at 4k.

In my experience the 3070 FE build is much nicer. It is almost silent, unobtrusive and the default fan curves just worked.

The 3080 Palit is noisier and has a load of stupid RGB to control, consequently I have multiple bits of software and firmware competing for control of the RGB and fans, and still haven't managed to get it set up to my liking. Oh, and don't get me started on DDR5 prices.

So from my experience, keep it cheap, cool and simple. Avoid cards with RGB, avoid power hungry CPUs and AIOs, avoid DDR5, avoid 4k. Get a case with good airflow and space for an air cooler, a motherboard that supports 2 M.2 slots and pile in fast storage, minimum 2TB. Games are massive now.

Of course part of my issues are due to cramming a 3080 into SFF, but I hate big cases so I'm forced to deal with the consequences of that.

These are my non expert opinions.

byte · 26-05-2022 11:16PM

I've spied an RTX3080 from MSI for a grand, so now I'm wondering if I'd be better spending some extra dosh on a 3080 over a 3070 and there's an FTW3 not much more expensive.

I think an RTX3080 would need at least an 850W PSU to be safe? And one with 3x 8pin connectors! Just a small bit worried about power draw from it over the 1070 though I'm guessing the power consumption is relative to whatever the PC is doing at any given time.

K.O.Kiki · 27-05-2022 01:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119119779#Comment_119119779

There's a fair few 3080s available for 900-ish (German price, might go up a bit for Irish). The Inno3D is only 2 slot though.

https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/inno3d%2Bgeforce%2Brtx%2B3080%2Bx3%2Blhr%2Bgrafikkarte%2B760524/eqsqid/98c94ae4-b5ee-4db0-96a8-9debe669b524

https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/zotac%2Bgaming%2Bgeforce%2Brtx%2B3080%2Btrinity%2B10gb%2Blhr%2Bgrafikkarte%2B760499/eqsqid/98c94ae4-b5ee-4db0-96a8-9debe669b524

https://www.alternate.de/MSI/GeForce-RTX-3080-VENTUS-3X-PLUS-LHR-Grafikkarte/html/product/1844097

https://www.alternate.de/Gainward/GeForce-RTX-3080-Phoenix-LHR-Grafikkarte/html/product/1780244

These are all 2x 8-pin PCIe models, too. Should be fine on a quality 650W+ unit.

Confused11811 · 27-05-2022 01:36PM

Alternate.de will ship directly to Ireland, you go through the checkout process and put in your Irish delivery address. They reserve the GPU without taking payment. Then a customer service rep will get back with a quote including Irish VAT and Shipping costs applied.

I don't think NBB do this , mailbox.de might be required. Personally I'd go with alternate.de rather than use a freight forwarder.

Confused11811 · 27-05-2022 01:43PM

Lots of GPU's getting returned to amazon warehouse at the moment, probably ex-mining GPU's or people returning GPU's they paid over the odds for a few months back. Most would probably be okay but discounts aren't great at the moment, but worth keeping an eye on especially if any warehouse discounts are announced. Currently a 10gb 3080 water force on Amazon UK for 854 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-GeForce-XTREME-WATERFORCE-Graphics/dp/B08P5W32PC/

byte · 27-05-2022 09:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121802#Comment_119121802

Yeah, I had spied a warehouse 3080 for 950 (can't remember the model), but being a warehouse offer made me wary considering how dear they are anyway. I feel I'd be better suited firing the extra few quid on a new one.

@K.O.Kiki the 3080's I was looking at so far were all 3 slot, would that be an issue? I was considering a 750/850W PSU anyway. I'd just need to be sure it has the 3x 8pin plugs.

I'm guessing the power consumption on 3080's would be a fair whack higher than 3070?

I think at this rate, I'll never have a tower bought! Everything will be obsolete by the time I decide 😆

K.O.Kiki · 27-05-2022 09:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123779#Comment_119123779

3 slot is no issue, in fact it's better - more mass for better cooling.

Fractal Ion Gold 750/850W has 3x PCIe connectors. Other alternatives are EVGA GQ series (hard-wired power cable), Seasonic Focus GX 750W+, Corsair RM/RMx 750W+, EVGA G-whatever 750W+, be quiet Straight Power 11 Gold (not Platinum) 750W+.

Been running my 5600X/3080 FE off a 750W Corsair Platinum SFX for a few months now.

byte · 27-05-2022 11:16PM

I've since viewed a video saying the Fractal Focus G isn't really suitable for water cooling radiators due to not enough space between where it would go on top and where the mobo sits.

I'd ideally like to keep my optical BD drive and have it inside the case. The Focus G seemed the best of bad lot on that front and comes with some fans pre-installed. More considerations needed...

I could, I guess, just knock the water cooler for the CPU on the head and just get a fan cooler.

Looking to build a new mid-range rig

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