Looking to build a new mid-range rig

byte

1. What is your budget? €1,600 or some more if I felt it was worth it.

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? General gaming

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? No, I have Win10 Pro that I hope I can transfer from existing PC.

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? SoundBlaster audio card (PCIe) and then just SSD and HDDs. Oh, and a Samsung BD drive...

5. Do you need a monitor? Not immediately.

5a. If yes, what size do you need. [19'/20'/22'/24'/etc.]

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? [1920x1080/1440x900/etc.] [Yes/No]

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? No

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? Not overly bothered.

8. How can you pay? Debit card.

9. When are you purchasing? [In next week or so

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Hope to build myself...

CPU wise, I was initially thinking of a R5 5600X, but have since been reading that the i5 12600K might be a better buy longterm, but with a newer 1700 socket.

GPU: I was hoping for RTX3070 or 3070Ti if price was right. Something to be middling for a number of years.

As I'd need a drive bay, which is rare enough on cases now, I was leaning towards a Fractal Focus G ATX case. https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/focus/focus-g/black/

Mobo, I'd like to have an ATX board with plenty of connectivity. Not interested in LED lighting that much.

I'm half wondering if I'd be best going the direction of PC Specialist or a site I saw mentioned here yesterday, AWD-IT who charge Irish VAT. It'll depend on the price difference I suppose. My current build started with faulty RAM which was a bit of a pain to rectify at the time!

Cheers!

K.O.Kiki

At 1080p the 12600K is faster by 7%. At 1440p or higher, it doesn't matter as you'll be GPU bottlenecked. I'd still get 5600 as you can get cheaper B550 motherboards for it (e.g. ASUS TUF Gaming B550-PLUS)

byte

Thanks for your advice.

I do notice that LGA1700 boards seem more expensive alright. I kinda worry that the B550 is near end of life, but that said, I've never bothered upgrading CPU in previous builds so I'll hardly start now! And funny you mention that ASUS board, is that is one that popped up on my radar one day.

Do you think it advisable to maybe spend the extra on an RTX3080 over the 3070?

God, it's that long since I bought a new PC, I've a lot of picking up to do!

Confused11811

You've decided to build at a good time with regards to availability :-)

You can't really go wrong with either Intel or AMD options. Personally I'd gone with the cheapest Mobo/cpu option and the savings can be used towards a GPU or just back into your pocket.

Regarding the GPU in my opinion it really comes down to Price vs performance . The 3070TI gaming performance isn't far off the 3080. The are different variants of the 3080 , one with 10GB of ram and the other with 12GB of ram. The 12GB is better than the 10gb but not much.

On the AMD side if ray tracing isn't a huge issue for you there are options like the RX6700XT or the much better RX6800, RX6800XT. Price wise it's hard to recommended the 6750XT , RX6900XT or RX6950XT. AMD has some upcoming new drivers that are showing big performance gains so thier offerings are really good comparatively speaking.

You're needs can probably be met with either the RTX3070 or even a RX6700XT but if you get a good price on RX6800 or RX3070TI then they could be a better option.

Availability hasn't been as good for 18 months or longer so you're in a good position to research further.

Jon Doe

This is my work machine: slap a decent graphics card and I'm sure you'd be happy with this.

• CPU AMD Ryzen 9 5950X
• CPU Cooler NOCTUA NH-D15 Chromax Black
• Motherboard ASUS PRIME X570-P
• SSD Samsung 980 PRO 1TB
• RAM Corsair 32GB KIT DDR4 3200MHz CL16 Vengeance LPX

Pick your card at geizhals.eu/?cat=gra16_512

I suggest an AMD card but I like to support an underdog. It's a thing I have against monopolies... :/

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084238#Comment_119084238

No offense but that's bad advice. ~850eur (more than half OP's budget) on just the CPU, cooler & mobo.

OP can get the guts of a PC (minus GPU) for 200eur less.

PCPartPicker Part List: https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/tLqWcb

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600 3.5 GHz 6-Core Processor (€201.83 @ Amazon Deutschland)

CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Freezer A35 A-RGB CPU Cooler (€43.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING B550-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard (€162.82 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL18 Memory (€67.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Case: Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case (€54.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Power Supply: Fractal Design Ion Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€114.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Case Fan: ARCTIC P12 56.3 CFM 120 mm Fan (€5.56 @ Amazon Deutschland)

Total: €651.00

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-05-19 14:39 CEST+0200

Jon Doe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084985#Comment_119084985

Sorry I just looked at the OP's +-1600€ limit and ran with it. That machine can be built for 1100€ (especially with 2x8GB which is enough for games) which leaves 500€ for the card.

The CPU AMD Ryzen 9 5950X can be bought for 550€ all over Europe.

PS1: for the love of God whatever you do don't buy a CPU that consumes much more than 100W! Stop promoting this insanity. And for a hassle free experience go with a vendor that assembles and tests the machine for 30-50€.

PS2: the DDR4-3600 is wasted on the Ryzen 5 5600; 3200 is cheaper and is enough.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119086284#Comment_119086284

You don't buy a 5950X for gaming. It's either 5600 (best value) or 5800X3D (best performance).

Also "less than 100W"? They all use over 100W in multi-threaded - but 5950X would use 60-100% more than a 5600!

550eur buys you a 6600 XT. 1000eur buys you an RTX 3080/RX 6800 XT which is twice as fast!

PS: Ryzen loves fast RAM. DDR4-3600 CL16 is ideal as it runs parallel with Ryzen's 1800MHz Infinity Fabric.

byte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084985#Comment_119084985

Thanks everybody for posting suggestions! Plenty to mull over this weekend.

This list from @K.O.Kiki does seem to be in line with what I should go for, I think. Just to note though that the €1600 was a conservative figure and could go up a bit if the benefits warranted it. It'll be a long time before I build another so keen to get it right (or as near as right as it can be these days).

A few musings if I may...

I noticed you recommend Arctic Liquid Freezer II on another thread, is it something I should maybe consider? I've built my last 3 or 4 PC's but have never dealt with liquid coolers before. I don't even know if current CPU's come with stock fans anymore! I'm guessing I'd need some thermal paste too for third party coolers?

I had in mind to get 2x16GB RAM, but maybe 2x8 is enough but at a higher DDR4-3600 speed?

PSU: I have no experience with Fractal PSU's, would they be decent? My current Corsair PSU has survived the past 2 builds, so it was that brand I had in mind, but as I said, I'm well out of the loop on good vs meh hardware.

I'd probably try get a board without the wifi, if there's a price difference, as PC is right beside the router and will be hardwired.

Cheers 🙂

byte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087288#Comment_119087288

Hm, I wonder if a 5800X3D? would be worth the extra bucks. Probably not for a casual like me.

I did notice that the TDP of the i5 12600K was nearly double that of the Ryzen 5 5600X (65W) but not sure how relevant these thermal watts are.

Also, interesting on the RAM, something I wouldn't have considered at all, as I was looking at 3000 or 3200, but 2x16GB sticks.

Jon Doe

You don't buy a 5950X for gaming. It's either 5600 (best value) or 5800X3D (best performance).

Fair enough :)

Also "less than 100W"? They all use over 100W in multi-threaded - but 5950X would use 60-100% more than a 5600!

Both the 5600 (6c) and 5700X (8c) are 65W, the 5950 is 105W (16c). The "less than 100" remark is just a criticism of CPUs above the i5-12600: they all break the 120W which is just ridiculous - IMHO. 65W is a good power point, 90W for high performance CPU is also OK. But 120~150W? That's getting into AMD FX-8350 territory... that's a scorching hot CPU and I prefer CPU as cool as possible... :)

550eur buys you a 6600 XT. 1000eur buys you an RTX 3080/RX 6800 XT which is twice as fast!

Yeah, I know. In graphics cards territory the more money the better. I don't even suggest anything because it's up to each owns wallet and I really can't tell the difference of anything above 50~60 fps...

PS: Ryzen loves fast RAM. DDR4-3600 CL16 is ideal as it runs parallel with Ryzen's 1800MHz Infinity Fabric.

I think that only applies for overclocking, otherwise why would AMD recommend DDR4-3200?

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087483#Comment_119087483

5800X3D is the "best" gaming CPU. However, I'm not sure it's worth the 200-300 over a Ryzen 7 5700X / Ryzen 5 5600 when that money is better spent on the GPU or rest of the system, as it's only a 7-10% increase in most scenarios. Go for it if you don't want to replace anything for the next 5 years, though.

TDP rating does not matter, in a sense. However, the 5700X (65W) is a better CPU than the 5800X (105W)(non-3D) as it's 98% as fast while using less power & producing less heat.

Arctic Liquid Freezer II are great IMHO. I use mine in a pull config (fans inside) to reduce noise further. They have a 6 year warranty so Arctic has confidence in them lasting.

Talking of warranty, the Fractal Ion line have 7yrs - which is less than I remembered; I thought it was 10yrs like Corsair RM units! mea culpa They are good units though.

I've run my gaming rig on 16Gb & 32Gb before - never thought 32 was necessary so went back to 16 when I moved to mini-ITX.

Non-WiFi motherboards, can go MSI B550-A Pro or Gigabyte B550 Gaming X / Aorus Elite. Wouldn't recommend a cheap X570 board, the B550s are better in everything but PCI lanes.

RAM, I must've clicked the 3600 CL18 kit instead of 3600 CL16.

byte

Thanks for your reply.

I also intended to have an m.2 nvme drive, so was considering the Samsung 970 EVO 1TB, and using my existing 2.5" SSD as a slave/secondary drive, and then my HDD's as less important.

Prices can go mental the more I look and consider, so I had better reign it in a wee bit! So maybe going back to the Ryzen 5600X or maybe the R7 5700X and rule out the 580X3D unfortunately.

There seems to be a spot on top of the Fractal case for liquid cooler so decisions, decisions!

Jon Doe

If I were you, I'd consider getting one of these

geizhals.eu/?cat=gehhd&xf=339_2.5%22%7E696_SATA+6Gb%2Fs%7E840_USB+3.1%7E943_1

and use the old sata SSD as an external backup drive.

byte

https://de.pcpartpicker.com/list/dt8gnt

This is kinda where I am at the moment! Somewhat above budget but meh.

There doesn't seem to be a huge difference between getting the parts and getting PCS to build and test it, probably around €200.

Decisions, decisions!

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104700#Comment_119104700

The Focus G can't fit a 280mm rad on top, has to be 240 or 360mm (top-mount is recommended).

Samsung 980 Pro 1Tb is overkill for a gaming system IMHO, you're unlikely to ever need its read-write speeds. Either go for a cheap 2Tb or save money with a cheaper 1Tb.

e.g. those extra couple bob are better served going for a better cooler like the Asus Strix or EVGA FTW3 ULTRA.

byte

Oh, thanks for the heads-up on the cooler! I hadn't realised that it wouldn't fit that case. I just chose that brand cooler as it's one you recommend.

I'll have to rethink again so, if the SSD is overkill too.

Thanks for the advice.

Jon Doe

If I were you I'd replace your mobo with the "ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming 4 ATX AM4 Motherboard (X570 Phantom Gaming 4)" 20€ extra to upgrade the chipset doesn't sound a bad deal to me. The 5600X is a 65W CPU. Are you going to waste your time with overclocking? Or do you need an ultra silent PC? Only in such circumstances should you resort to water cooling...

Also, I'd replace the 980 Pro with these two:

de.pcpartpicker.com/product/n2JwrH/toshiba-internal-hard-drive-dt01aca300

de.pcpartpicker.com/product/TwWfrH/samsung-970-evo-plus-500-gb-m2-2280-nvme-solid-state-drive-mz-v7s500bam

The EVO is more than enough for gaming, and you can use the Steam app to move the games you're playing the most atm from the HDD into the SSD. I am assuming that your top 3 doesn't take more than 500GB... :)

Aodhan5000

Do not buy a hard drive in this day and age......

byte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119105235#Comment_119105235

It's ASRock that I've got in my current build but I never liked the "BIOS" UI in it. That said, I guess it was reliable enough, though I was steering towards Asus or Gigabyte. What would X570 give me over the 550?

You could be right on the water, I just thought it'd be quieter and maybe better at keeping temps lower than a fan? Plus less weight of a fan and sink hanging off the mobo though I guess that makes no real odds, as manufacturers would've thought of that.

On the SSD, I intend to stick with a minimum 1TB primary drive and if anything, I'd get bigger (other than the fact when they fail, they don't give much warning IME).

I already have 3 1TB HDD's and a 1GB 2.5" SSD, so I'll have to cull 2/3 HDD's perhaps, or move into an enclosure for NAS or something...

K.O.Kiki

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3582-amd-chipset-differences-b550-vs-x570-b450-x470-zen-3

Basically, with B550 you get no extra PCIe 4.0 lanes for ultra-fast SSDs, and it can support fewer M.2 & USB 3.1/3.2 devices. On the plus side, most B550 motherboards are better designed than their X570 counterparts (more robust VRMs & better memory overclocking), and there's no tiny chipset fan to contend with.

Both chipsets are limited to 4x SATA, though X570 can use PCIe 4.0 lanes for additional SATA drives.

As I gave in the first part picker list, the Arctic Freezer A35 is probably the best value for a R5-5600 / R7-5700X build (though I understand wanting to overcompensate for even lower thermals/noise).

Jon Doe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119106237#Comment_119106237

Still has the lowest cost/TB no?... And if your use case is mostly sequential access and very little random 4k r/w... why not?

Jon Doe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119109134#Comment_119109134

I was steering towards Asus or Gigabyte

I think Asrock is a subsidiary of Asus, a no-thrills brand.

What would X570 give me over the 550?

Much better IO. Totally worth the 20€ difference.

tech4gamers.com/b550-vs-x570/

techedged.com/b550-vs-x570/

You could be right on the water, I just thought it'd be quieter and maybe better at keeping temps lower than a fan?

You are right on that account, but you just need quiet *enough*. Do you use headphones? Is there a grandma sleeping in the computer room? Could you use the cash diff to up the specs on some other component? Is the machine to be taken to LAN parties, ans so the vanity factor must be considered? All good questions that only you can answer... :)

Plus less weight of a fan and sink hanging off the mobo though I guess that makes no real odds, as manufacturers would've thought of that.

That is a factor, and you would expect the manuf to think of that... But my 2700 got stuck in its slot somehow and I'm 80% sure I'm not to blame... That hunk of copper hanging on the side looks mighty suspicious... But well as long as it works :D

I already have 3 1TB HDD's and a 1GB 2.5" SSD, so I'll have to cull 2/3 HDD's perhaps, or move into an enclosure for NAS or something...

2.5" SSDs are always useful to speed up a friend's old laptop: replace the 5400 hdd, reinstall windows and you got yourself a happy friend... :P

Try to sell the 3x1GB HDDs on the 2nd hand market. If they are in good condition you may be able to sling then for 20~30€ each. Then you can get yourself a 3~4GB drive for 60~80€.

Lumen

In the last year or so I have built two SFF gaming PCs, one 10G Intel with a 3070 FE, air cooled running at 1440p, and one 12G Intel with a Palit 3080, mix of air and AIO, running at 4k.

In my experience the 3070 FE build is much nicer. It is almost silent, unobtrusive and the default fan curves just worked.

The 3080 Palit is noisier and has a load of stupid RGB to control, consequently I have multiple bits of software and firmware competing for control of the RGB and fans, and still haven't managed to get it set up to my liking. Oh, and don't get me started on DDR5 prices.

So from my experience, keep it cheap, cool and simple. Avoid cards with RGB, avoid power hungry CPUs and AIOs, avoid DDR5, avoid 4k. Get a case with good airflow and space for an air cooler, a motherboard that supports 2 M.2 slots and pile in fast storage, minimum 2TB. Games are massive now.

Of course part of my issues are due to cramming a 3080 into SFF, but I hate big cases so I'm forced to deal with the consequences of that.

These are my non expert opinions.

byte

I've spied an RTX3080 from MSI for a grand, so now I'm wondering if I'd be better spending some extra dosh on a 3080 over a 3070 and there's an FTW3 not much more expensive.

I think an RTX3080 would need at least an 850W PSU to be safe? And one with 3x 8pin connectors! Just a small bit worried about power draw from it over the 1070 though I'm guessing the power consumption is relative to whatever the PC is doing at any given time.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119119779#Comment_119119779

There's a fair few 3080s available for 900-ish (German price, might go up a bit for Irish). The Inno3D is only 2 slot though.

https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/inno3d%2Bgeforce%2Brtx%2B3080%2Bx3%2Blhr%2Bgrafikkarte%2B760524/eqsqid/98c94ae4-b5ee-4db0-96a8-9debe669b524

https://www.notebooksbilliger.de/zotac%2Bgaming%2Bgeforce%2Brtx%2B3080%2Btrinity%2B10gb%2Blhr%2Bgrafikkarte%2B760499/eqsqid/98c94ae4-b5ee-4db0-96a8-9debe669b524

https://www.alternate.de/MSI/GeForce-RTX-3080-VENTUS-3X-PLUS-LHR-Grafikkarte/html/product/1844097

https://www.alternate.de/Gainward/GeForce-RTX-3080-Phoenix-LHR-Grafikkarte/html/product/1780244

These are all 2x 8-pin PCIe models, too. Should be fine on a quality 650W+ unit.

Confused11811

Alternate.de will ship directly to Ireland, you go through the checkout process and put in your Irish delivery address. They reserve the GPU without taking payment. Then a customer service rep will get back with a quote including Irish VAT and Shipping costs applied.

I don't think NBB do this , mailbox.de might be required. Personally I'd go with alternate.de rather than use a freight forwarder.

Confused11811

Lots of GPU's getting returned to amazon warehouse at the moment, probably ex-mining GPU's or people returning GPU's they paid over the odds for a few months back. Most would probably be okay but discounts aren't great at the moment, but worth keeping an eye on especially if any warehouse discounts are announced. Currently a 10gb 3080 water force on Amazon UK for 854 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-GeForce-XTREME-WATERFORCE-Graphics/dp/B08P5W32PC/

byte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121802#Comment_119121802

Yeah, I had spied a warehouse 3080 for 950 (can't remember the model), but being a warehouse offer made me wary considering how dear they are anyway. I feel I'd be better suited firing the extra few quid on a new one.

@K.O.Kiki the 3080's I was looking at so far were all 3 slot, would that be an issue? I was considering a 750/850W PSU anyway. I'd just need to be sure it has the 3x 8pin plugs.

I'm guessing the power consumption on 3080's would be a fair whack higher than 3070?

I think at this rate, I'll never have a tower bought! Everything will be obsolete by the time I decide 😆

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119123779#Comment_119123779

3 slot is no issue, in fact it's better - more mass for better cooling.

Fractal Ion Gold 750/850W has 3x PCIe connectors. Other alternatives are EVGA GQ series (hard-wired power cable), Seasonic Focus GX 750W+, Corsair RM/RMx 750W+, EVGA G-whatever 750W+, be quiet Straight Power 11 Gold (not Platinum) 750W+.

Been running my 5600X/3080 FE off a 750W Corsair Platinum SFX for a few months now.

byte

I've since viewed a video saying the Fractal Focus G isn't really suitable for water cooling radiators due to not enough space between where it would go on top and where the mobo sits.

I'd ideally like to keep my optical BD drive and have it inside the case. The Focus G seemed the best of bad lot on that front and comes with some fans pre-installed. More considerations needed...

I could, I guess, just knock the water cooler for the CPU on the head and just get a fan cooler.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119124429#Comment_119124429

Arctic Freezer A35, as said 😉

https://www.kitguru.net/components/cooling/luke-hill/arctic-freezer-a35-a-rgb-cpu-cooler-review/

Hmm... case-wise (without paying silly money) maybe one of the following?

• Zalman Z1 Plus
• Cooler Master Elite 500 ODD
• Antec DP502 Flux

byte

Oh, I do like both the Zalman and Antec cases.

billybonkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246282/looking-to-build-a-new-mid-range-rig

Sorry to hijack, but if you order from AWD-IT do you get hit with the extra customs etc here in Ireland? They say on the site you don't but I am sceptical. Same for Amazon UK do you still get hit with the extras? It's a long time since I have order PC parts...

byte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119136192#Comment_119136192

On AWD-IT's website, it says

DELIVERING TO IRELAND (ROI)

All our products can be shipped to Ireland at the checkout. There are no additional charges regarding VAT or Customs charges when you order from AWD-IT.

Our website displays VAT at 20% based on UK. The correct VAT of 23% will be displayed at the checkout for Ireland.

For Amazon it's the same, they change the VAT from 20% to 23% at checkout, which is why you see price differences at checkout compared to what you see earlier.

As far as I'm aware, there are no custom duties on computer hardware.

********

With regards my build, I've ordered the Antec case from Scan, which I hope will arrive at the Scottish destination by Wednesday evening, as I've relative coming over who will take it with them.

byte

So, after much messing around, I've compiled two builds, an Intel Core i5 and AMD Ryzen 5.

AMD

There's not that big a price difference between Intel and AMD prices really, so I'm honestly leaning towards Intel which is newer and marginally faster.

Both prices are all from caseking.de for uniformity, but I'll see if Amazon can be used for some, as I've a credit balance to use from giftcards. Caseking seems to be a sister site of OCUK so RMA's should hopefully be OK if the worst happens.

I'm still tempted with liquid cooling particularly if I go Intel, as the i5 gets hotter than the Ryzen.

Anything I'm missing? :)

And yea, my spend has jumped up a fair whack from my initial €1,600 guesstimate.

K.O.Kiki

Do not get the Hyper 212 - it's overpriced trash.

For 13eur more you can now get the excellent Scythe Fuma 2 rev.B which also ships with Intel LGA1700 brackets 😎It also comes with a tube of thermal paste so you don't need to buy that separately.

SSD, you're paying PCIe4 prices for a PCIe3 drive - might as well just get a Gigabyte Aorus drive at that stage.

Jon Doe

If you can afford to have an ethernet cable connecting the desktop to the router, you could get a cheaper X570/Z690 mobo - without wifi - and up your SSD: the 980 Pro or KOKiki's Aorus.

As for the CPU, I'm biassed against Intel. You should not reward Intel for building a "10" core (not really, more like 6 core + 4 atoms) 150W CPU. To me, that indicates a crappy CPU: your machine doesn't perform properly in the 60-100W range so you pump power into the thing so you can increase the frequency... That's never a good idea in electronics... :S Still, as far as CPU brands are concerned it is very much a personal choice... :/

byte

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119147410#Comment_119147410

Thanks again for your advice.

I hadn't actually noticed that the EVO 970 was PCIe 3! So it'll be either the Aorus or 980PRO for storage. I've also just realised that my existing SSD 2.5" EVO860 500GB, not 1TB like I had thought! It'll do for now as slave I guess, and later, I'll add another 1TB NVMe I guess. I'll still throw in one of the HDD's too with media on it.

The Scythe also looks the part! If I don't end up with a liquid cooler to suit LGA1700...

@Jon Doe I was choosing the wifi option because they have Bluetooth too, which I'd find handy without the need for external USB dongle.

On the CPU, I thought it was 120W, not 150W!? I'm not sure it's a crappy CPU?

K.O.Kiki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119151602#Comment_119151602

The 12600K is 125W TDP but can use around 155W in normal application use. However if you run it at stock / with thermal limits removed (not overclocked!) it shouldn't break 70C.

Jon Doe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119151602#Comment_119151602

I was choosing the wifi option because they have Bluetooth too, which I'd find handy without the need for external USB dongle.

As I always say, the OPs knows best what are his/her needs (and budget!). If you need both, make frequent use and it is within you budget, go for it.

On the CPU, I thought it was 120W, not 150W!? I'm not sure it's a crappy CPU?

Maybe the CPU itself - the architecture - is not crappy. But Intel's fab process is absolute crap and they know it. It's the reason why they feel the need to bolt atom cores to their desktop CPUs - AMD has 6c CPUs? We have 10c CPUs!! They have been having process problems since 2018~19. That, combined with Ryzen is the reason why AMD has been gnawing market share from Intel. Intel says 150W:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/134589/intel-core-i512600k-processor-20m-cache-up-to-4-90-ghz/specifications.html

If you really want to go with Intel and don't want to do overclocking - no need for a K CPU - then pick this one:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/96149/intel-core-i512600-processor-18m-cache-up-to-4-80-ghz/specifications.html

65W when idling, 117W max and no atom core foolishness.

byte

Hmm, you have made me reconsider again!

150W seems a big jump from what the Ryzen 5 can manage in marginal differences. I also didn't realise that the extra 4 cores are basically there to add core numbers.

I'm now thinking go back to a Ryzen 5 as originally considered, with a B550 board and use the savings towards an additional 1TB m.2 drive.

Jon Doe

I'm now thinking go back to a Ryzen 5 as originally considered, with a B550 board and use the savings towards an additional 1TB m.2 drive.

Or maybe you should "invest" the difference elsewhere?

geizhals.eu/kfa-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-sg-1-click-oc-38iom5md99dk-a2539212.html

😋

Just a final FYI: in my book a 1800~1900€ desktop is not a mid-range gaming rig! Not even by a long shoot! 😀

byte

Indeed, you are right, if I hadn't won a raffle on an iPhone 13 Pro, I'd not be at these figures right now!

I personally don't think I need to go beyond a basic RTX3080 as a casual gamer, so I think I'd be better with more storage.

I do intend to replace this AOC 27" 1080 monitor with something more decent a few months down the line too, hopefully...

Aodhan5000

The little cores are proven to be very useful in certain multithreaded applications. Not that everything works like cinebench but, if you look at the cinebench scores, the little cores are rock solid. The i5 12600k with the 6P +4E is really good in multithread and single thread workloads (see Hardware Unboxed video).

With regard to power draw, yes Intel is less efficient, but the difference in power draw while gaming is really not that significant which seems to be the use case for this build.

But if the AMD system works out cheaper for you, and you would rather put that money to something more important, go for it.

Source:

https://youtu.be/LzhwVLUVork

Jon Doe

The little cores are proven to be very useful

You'll keep on thinking like that until Thread Director makes one too many bad decisions: "Oh? You need to read a mesh from disk, load it onto the graphic's card memory so that you can render the next frame? Don't worry: I'll get an atom core on it right away! Well... right away-ish..." Once you get tired of all the hiccups you'll just go to BIOS settings and disable the economy cores so as to economize your patience... :P

power draw while gaming is really not that significant

Not significant? In your opinion, what other common activity demands more of the CPU? It is my understanding that gaming is the one thing that has been driving the x86 industry for the past few decades - that implies increased power consumption. DOOM I alone, sold more 486's than any spreadsheet software you can think of.

Concerning your source, I wouldn't put much stock on a guy that in Nov 6, 2021 was recommending a CPU that was put on the market in June 2020 for buyers on a budget. It may be the case that someone somewhere had a load of 10400f's beached in some warehouse and spent some marketing dollars to help move that stock. Always keep in mind that your eyes can't see above 25~30 fps. I can't be sure, but I believe that if you can sense that a screen is delivering above 60fps (for example, you need more than 60fps to avoid getting headaches) you are a very rare exception.

Aodhan5000

If you can give me a RELIABLE source saying that the thread director makes decisions to use "atom cores" as you call them, to render frames over a P core and causing stuttering which impacts the gaming experience in a noticeable and problemo way, send it on.

I said the DIFFERENCE in power draw is not that significant. You're just quoting me badly to misrepresent my views. For instance, in Aida 64, the difference in power draw would be much greater as it utilizes the entire CPU to a much greater degree than gaming. I don't really understand the rest of what you're saying there, it's not very coherent.

The 10400f was a very solid budget CPU. Can't say as to whether or not he was recommending it at the end of 2021 but maybe your idea of budget is different to his.

And as a generality, the human eye can see much more than 30fps. For me there is a clear difference between 60Hz and 144Hz even.

Now I don't know if you're trolling or what, but stop the whole craic of misinforming people.

ericfartman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161160#Comment_119161160

What in the **** are you talking about? Lets all go back to consoles and 30FPS gaming.

Jon Doe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161409#Comment_119161409

I'm talking about this: https://www.pcgamer.com/how-many-frames-per-second-can-the-human-eye-really-see/

I'm talking about not spending more money than you need to. For me, a constant rate of 40/50 fps or more is enough. I can't tell the difference beyond that.

I never mentioned consoles. If you check my previous posts you will learn that I don't like consoles due to vendor lock in. So... what the **** are you talking about?

K.O.Kiki

I accidentally set

I

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164252#Comment_119164252

I accidentally set Tomb Raider to 30fps the other day & could tell instantly that it controlled & looked wrong.

Jon Doe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164571#Comment_119164571

At 30 fps I probably would too. Have you tried to progressively increase the frame cap to determine when do you cease to notice the difference?