RTÉ journalist found guilty of sexually assaulting woman as she slept

CramCycle · 17-05-2022 12:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074570#Comment_119074570

Im starting to think many posters here have never been involved in any form of sexual relationship, either a one night stand or a long term one. The amount of time you'd have to waste explaining to each one the context for every scenario with their silly hypothetical, it's like they've never had any normal sexual relationship ever.

TomTomTim · 17-05-2022 12:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074682#Comment_119074682

That's not what I said, and you know that. I said it wasn't rape, and I left that remark at the end, which had nothing to do with my judgment about the status of the situation as a whole. It was simply something that made no sense that had no relevance to the rape part. Putting words in peoples mouth is the work of the desperate, the minute you do it you've lost the argument.

17-05-2022 12:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074638#Comment_119074638

A jury of 12 convicted- if it were a hung jury then this would indicate that the issues and facts at stake wasn’t so straightforward and possibly that it should never have come to trial in the first place -but this isn’t the case.

The man’s own testimony of what he did essentially gave the jury the means to convict- he essentially demonstrated sexual assault without consent, even though he didn’t believe that’s what he did.

If you think the law on sexual assault is not right, then I guess lobbying your TD to change it is one option but it’s clear from the jury verdict this was very much an open and shut case.

monkeybutter · 17-05-2022 12:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074691#Comment_119074691

Yes its no suprise that IT types with an obsession with cycling and posting online have a hard time meeting women

17-05-2022 12:10PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074665#Comment_119074665

I’d actually beg to differ on your first points above- SOME people, maybe MANY people, but not necessarily all or indeed most, would agree that normative behaviours in the past were “innocent” or “acceptable” - while they may not have complained openly in the way we see today, the concept of wrong and right didn’t start with the creation of Twitter, social media and the metoo movement- it’s been long before that

osarusan · 17-05-2022 12:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074069#Comment_119074069

I would doubt that it does.

It's not just an issue of whether consent exists, it's also an issue of whether somebody can make a case that they had reasonable belief that consent exists.

If somebody kisses their partner good night or gives them a snuggle, as they've been doing for years, it will be possible for them to argue that they had a reasonable belief that consent existed. If they went further and started doing what this guy was convicted for, as they'd been doing similar without issue in the past, they could make the same defence.

The issue here is that this guy couldn't make the argument that he had reasonable grounds to believe that consent existed. If the argument was advanced in court that her getting into bed with him and engaging in consensual 'foreplay-style activity' before saying no to penetrative sex and going to sleep constituted reasonable grounds for belief that he had consent to lie on top of her and grope her breasts while she slept, then the jury didn't buy it.

17-05-2022 12:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074667#Comment_119074667

You’ve over simplified things in your above scenario meaning that we’re now not talking about the same situation- it’s pointless engaging with you if you’re going to bring in scenarios totally unrelated to what ACTUally occurred.

There’s a big difference between people in a long term relationship who have established sexual activity norms and a stranger lying on top of a woman who is asleep attempting sexual activity when she previously said no.

Amenhotep · 17-05-2022 12:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119073293#Comment_119073293

Well that's not a f*ckin surprise!!!

On your way out to buy your purple hair dye, say hello to your 12 cats...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 17-05-2022 12:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074765#Comment_119074765

Well thank you for that well considered and informed in-depth responce!

is_that_so · 17-05-2022 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074753#Comment_119074753

If somebody kisses their partner good night or gives them a snuggle, as they've been doing for years, it will be possible for them to argue that they had a reasonable belief that consent existed. If they went further and started doing what this guy was convicted for, as they'd been doing similar without issue in the past, they could make the same defence.

We'll be in real trouble as a society if partners cannot resolve personal issues like this and resort to clogging up the courts and allowing convictions, in the public eye at the very least, to be assigned to their life partners.

walshb · 17-05-2022 12:22PM

I think the bringing up the married couple to explain/compare is pointless. They are not really comparable

Even if the physical acts are comparable.......

But I guess it is worth thinking on

Had a husband did that exact same thing to his wife, 99.9999 percent time they'd probably have a joke about it next morning.

Yet, in this case, a female was in her evidence to the point of suicide.....these are the possible emotional complexities of human intimacy, and why I do have sympathy for him, and for her!

TomTomTim · 17-05-2022 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074765#Comment_119074765

Gender-less cats who've fought against all of societies toxic gender stereotypes, in the name of pure feline liberation

Pussyhands · 17-05-2022 12:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074463#Comment_119074463

No? I don't see the difference. Consent is consent after all?

Pussyhands · 17-05-2022 12:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074468#Comment_119074468

Of course you wouldn't believe it. 🙄

Fandymo · 17-05-2022 12:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074792#Comment_119074792

So a married woman should have less of a right to consent?

Thats exactly what you have said.

Fandymo · 17-05-2022 12:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074794#Comment_119074794

Vegan too, doncha know.

TomTomTim · 17-05-2022 12:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074803#Comment_119074803

Imagine if all the drunken hugs that you've given to people through the years on nights out, could be considered sexual assault, simply because you didn't get a verbal or written agreement

HeidiHeidi · 17-05-2022 12:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074803#Comment_119074803

You really don't see the difference?

Or you're arguing for the sake of arguing?

In any case, the behaviour needs to be such that it would prompt a complaint.

Furze99 · 17-05-2022 12:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074754#Comment_119074754

Excuse me, but explain exactly what is the legal difference. And exactly when & where any difference arises in terms of length of relationship or nature of it. Is it after second date, a week, a month, marriage or what? Otherwise your POV doesn't stand up.

cap.in.hand. · 17-05-2022 12:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074754#Comment_119074754

He knew her friend after meeting them on night out ...not exactly stranger and obviously felt comfortable with him asking her back

17-05-2022 12:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074792#Comment_119074792

The concept of consent still stands for married couples- I think that’s worth pointing out; there may well be many women out there who have had experiences of non consensual sexual activity with their long term partners who haven’t made a complaint - I’m hoping these numbers are small but they’re likely bigger than we might imagine them to be

thefallingman · 17-05-2022 12:31PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074828#Comment_119074828

this case could set a dangerous precedent

is_that_so · 17-05-2022 12:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074822#Comment_119074822

The point of a married couple is that they would deal with an incident like this particular one in another way on account of the very different relationship. This is two strangers negotiating the limits of consent and he ending up not doing that.

Pussyhands · 17-05-2022 12:32PM

I was watching Eastenders the other week and Janine and Danny Dyers character were staring at each other and next thing he went and kissed her.

How come you never hear about any complaints being made about consent on tv shows? She didn't give consent for him to kiss her.

The reality is this type of thing is done by men and women across the country every single day and both parties are perfectly fine and understand even if they are not in the mood. These batsh!t crazy women are dangerous.

17-05-2022 12:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074851#Comment_119074851

Oh totally - like there’s huge similarity between a fully clothed hug with someone who’s awake and a naked straddling of someone who’s asleep who previously said no to such activity- in fact I can’t see any difference whatsoever