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Why are new builds all so ugly?

  • 08-05-2022 10:41am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭


    Grey doors, grey walls, grey everything. Ghastly looking brutish shape

    Massive windows that look like a portal to some place beyond the event horizon of a black hole

    Uncosy telly-centric interior that looks like a scene from the Matrix or perhaps a waiting room for a space elevator.

    Very few trees or nature surrounding. A builder I was chatting to recently lobbed the blame squarely at planners, but to what extent are the builders to blame for this ugly uniform design? Every new build estate looks like this. Every decade since the 60's or 70's gets its own style of unimaginative design in this country.

    Is it feasible to build a house that doesn't look like all the new builds? For example is it still possible to build a stone cottage with a thatched roof if you insulated it enough?



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭put_the_kettle_on


    There's a firm in the uk called Border Oak that do thatched cottages but they're ferociously expensive so I'm guessing that the contemporary builds are much cheaper to erect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Beauty is in the eye of the key holder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭SimpleDimple


    Add to that they don’t have feicing front gardens anymore so your window Into the sitting room is just the path. They’re all 3 stories high so the tiny back gardens have no natural light. Also the third story is a massive bedroom, but if you’ve kids you would want to be on the second floor for safety reasons, so the kids get the giant bedroom upstairs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    My pet hate on new buildings is the grey looking cladding sometimes used instead of better looking brickwork.

    No reflection on the people of Tyrrellstown but this is the worst designed estates in the county imo. I absolutely hate getting jobs here it's such a mess. Again I stress I'm talking about the buildings & not the people. All the people I've worked for here have been decent people



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 854 ✭✭✭raxy


    Front gardens are generally a waste in most houses. When do you ever see anyone using their front garden? Makes more sense to take it away & give a bigger back garden to a house but they probably just take it away to cram more houses in the same area.

    Most new houses I've noticed don't have the path at the sitting room window. They usually have a paved drive for cars with a small flower bed as the divide between houses. I have seen some that don't though, don't think I would ever buy a house like that though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I quite like the current design of rural one off houses.

    That said, I do blame the planners and it is surely the definition of bad planning that build can be picked out by style down to a 5 or 6 year period.

    Rurally for example, there was a craze for concrete overbarged for a while, then some stone was compulsory almost, then any roadside wall had to be stone,

    Now it's small scale roofs, simple detailing and windows as big as you want them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭dil87


    It's all subjective really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    You dont see anyone benefit from having no front garden. The developer just uses it to maximise space. Also very few new estates have big greens these days. In my 80s built estate the big green does be filled with kids playing football. Great to see.

    I like having a front garden. I dont think id be overly comfortable having my front living room window 1 meter from the public path.

    I dont really think the houses are ugly these days though. In 10 or 15 years they might be. Especially the ones that are 3 stories. The 3 storie houses in a new estate are dreadfully laid out a lot of the time. Walk in the front door which is at the side, kitcen to the left, sitting room to the right. Only about 4 meters deep. Then up to the second floor etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,962 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Op check out theranch_newbuild on insta.

    Sounds like the kinda thing you'd be interested in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,515 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    People here are less educated wrt aesthetics and accept bland and the outright ugly. Sometimes penny pinching and sometimes it is just bad taste.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭DeSelby83


    Out if interest can you post something that's not ugly?

    Also are you referring to estate builds or one off houses around the country or both?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,059 ✭✭✭kirving


    People don't see the difference between minimalist and cost saving design.

    No garden, no driveway, no external windowsills, totally flat walls, no fascia boards, white plaster, no fireplace, tiny windows(this is getting better), tiny shaded rear gardens, plain skirting boards, cheap plastic ESB boxes on your port are because there's nowhere else to out them....

    All marketed as clean and maintenance free, which they admittedly are, but they're also completely devoid of any character and ultimately designed to a cost.

    I'm renting a 1 bed apt in Dublin for almost 6 times the cost of what my parents mortgage cost on a new 4 bed detached in 1993 in Dublin. (Still 3X accounting for inflation). Believe me when I say I want cheap housing, fast. But there's a middle ground between speed, and throwing up absolute egg boxes which we need to live with for the next 80 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,796 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Housing is so needed that builders and developers know that planning permission is a formality now and aesthetically there isn’t the same desire for the perfect or well thought out design… people just need functional homes asap…to service the seriously huge surge in population thanks to immigration in the main…and the pressure that’s adding to housing stock. Egg boxes as above is how I’d describe two developments I can think of…look like they were designed by some lad after leaving the pub and with a load of leftover materials…

    Also two new builds very near me and 10 years ago not a cat in hells chance permission would have been granted… one is on a corner and the high wall around it so if you are pulling out in a car you can’t see any traffic from the left on the main road until the very last second… pure dangerous …. Especially if the vehicle is speeding …

    So whoever in the planning department just looked, went.. “.. yes, it won’t fall down, we need houses,so, approved !

    Cheap looking design, materials and just ugly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    I'll also never get why people build such big houses, there's no reason in the world why a family of 4 or 5 should need a 2500 square foot house, and I see it all the time people whinging about the cost of everything when they could cut a quarter off their house and save a fortune, time and again people complaining about how much tradesmen cost but getting planning to build a 3000 square foot behemoth seems like a must have for some people



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,137 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Is it feasible to build a house that doesn't look like all the new builds? For example is it still possible to build a stone cottage with a thatched roof if you insulated it enough?

    Stone cottages with thatched roofs weren't invented because they looked nice, they were the most sensible use of materials and technology available at the time, used in such a way to maximize performance, e.g. small windows to reduce heat loss, field stone gathered in the process of clearing fields for agriculture. They were also dark inside and unhealthy to live in due to the burning of solid fuels (there are still a lot of people in denial about the lung cancer and other respiratory disease risks from this).

    Attempting to keep the traditional aesthetic elements (e.g. small windows) in a modern build doesn't make any sense. Why would you want to live in the dark when modern glazing makes it unnecessary?

    Best start with a blank sheet of paper, include design elements enabled by modern technology which serve the needs and expectations of the occupants, and try not to botch it with poor proportions.

    Anyway, these look OK to me.

    Rural, in the UK

    Urban, and closer to home




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,612 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    They are two sets of lovely houses. It is worth saying, both retain a lot of traditional elements like pitched roofs, vertical windows with the golden ratio I think, no dormers. But I wonder, are those metal roofs noisy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,137 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Good question. The metal roof in the bungalow is counterbattened and ventilated, so presumably a little noisy from the outside, but if you have well fitted triple glazing, there's presumably little flanking sound.

    Except in summer 😄

    The exposed concrete helps to moderate daytime peaks, but as Juraj points out, withthermal mass, adequate provision for ‘night purging’ is essential to ensure heat does not build up. He can achieve this by opening all windows at night, providing good cross ventilation.

    Metal mesh fly screens over the bedroom windows enable night ventilation without insects getting in — and also add privacy and cut out some solar gain during the day. This works so well that Juraj and Joyce have retrofitted similar screens to other windows.

    I dunno, there's something quite nice about the idea of summer rain hitting a metal roof. Quite nice, or bloody annoying, depending on one's mood.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    100 percent. Its mental and a blight on the landscaoe in the country. Long line the bungalow or cottage.

    We recently got an extension and looking at it in hindsight the size was overkill. We now have a 1500 sq foot house for 4 of us. Silly really. No need for any 4-5 person family to have a house of 2000-2500 sq foot.

    Regarding housing for single people a mate of mine is divorced, grown up kids etc. He'd be more than content with a 1 bed 30-40 sq meter apartment. But no we wont build them. Bollix. Instead he is looking at 2 bed houses or apartment way to big for his needs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Small windows weren't so much to do with heat loss, they were just the simplest and cheapest method of construction. Arching or hewing a large piece of stone for the lintel wasn't an option for most, and glass was expensive.

    Personally i think that the planning requirement for small windows for new builds in rural areas just so they look 'traditional' is a joke. It makes a mockery of whatever 'heritage' is supposed to be. Times have changed and modern architecture should reflect the current



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,515 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Irish keeping up with the Murphy's/dick waving thing. Johnny over the road puts up a big house, therefore I must fire up a bigger house.

    It's very funny when they run out of funds building their mini hotel and the 'garden' is rough ground with building materials blowing around. Same with motors, big car on the outside but poverty spec inside.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik




    Yuck



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,831 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Still stihl waters 3


    Exactly, gravel drive with the kerbs done but no money to tar it, house not painted 10 years later, crazy stuff



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    No chimney is one of the bigger changes, I see estates of matchbox houses being built now around Dublin. Like Legoland in places and none have chimneys, solar panels stuck on roof in many cases. Where chimneys are built, they are false constructions, just to add to the look of the house and put the price up several thousand €.

    Don't quite agree on the small windows think and that large modern windows are the business. All openings in exterior walls, windows & doors etc can never be as well insulated as a properly built exterior wall, as far as I know. So there's some balance, a sweet point. Where enough light and solar gain is allowed in whilst set against heat loss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,262 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    not award winning but those are quite decent.

    '100 percent. Its mental and a blight on the landscaoe in the country. Long line the bungalow or cottage' - long live the bungalow, are you being serious?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,283 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Most new builds in estates do look minimal and cheap. They are ugly. They get way uglier though years down the line when occupants start putting there own stamp on the property by changing the windows and doors or some other aspect of the property. Often people get this very wrong.

    I also hate the teeny tiny back gardens that most new estates have. Houses are so close together that there is no privacy whatsoever. Years ago houses had much bigger gardens. Outdoor space is important and it is often not considered by buyers at all.

    Most new builds don't seem to have garages for storage anymore either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,515 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    They get way uglier though years down the line when occupants start putting there own stamp on the property by changing the windows and doors or some other aspect of the property. Often people get this very wrong.

    Oh by god. This.

    Those dolls house white PVC doors are a pet hate of mine. These do not look good on anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    To be honest, most self builders set out with just such plans.

    They raise enough funds to get into the house and comply with planning and building regs. No more, no less.

    It's easy to scoff at this but it has been the way for along time in rural Ireland and to be fair, you would have to argue that it is wise to put the money into getting the house right and big deal if they have a rough driveway for a year or 2.

    I see this consistently in my work certifying one off builds where only minimal funds are allocated towards landscaping.

    In terms of certification, I look for garden walls to be done and any drainage required to be in place but couldn't care less about lawn seeding or tarmac or kerbs.

    You might see it as crazy stuff but these people are sitting in their 250 sqm houses with mortgages of under 250k for the most part.

    They might argue that paying 600 or 700k for a small house in an estate is the crazy stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    If you told me the house i was buying was going to look like that then id tell yuou not to bother even starting to build it :)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    I'm talking about one off builds with this point. I'm in the self build group on fb and most of the houses are sooo ugly.

    What is actually with the design where you have a house and then you have another section extrdued out of it like it's an extension...yet it's a new build! Similar to this kinda thing.

    And not having a fascia or soffit looks so wrong.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Dudda


    Tiny back garden - cheaper

    No front garden - cheaper

    Box type shape - cheaper

    Standard grey windows - cheaper

    Grey cladding instead of brick - cheaper

    Tiny box rooms - cheaper

    Plastic ESB meter boxes at front door - cheaper

    Cheap plastic electrical sockets and light switches instead of designer metal - cheaper

    No trees or very limited landscaping - cheaper

    Plain interior rooms with no covings, white walls - cheaper

    Plain timber internal doors painted white - cheaper

    Plain MDF skirtings and architraves - cheaper

    Standard chrome door handles - cheaper

    No fireplace - cheaper (but also easier to meet regulations)

    Steep narrow stairs - cheaper

    Three stories instead of two floors to fit more buildings - cheaper


    Anyone starting to notice a pattern? House prices are expensive as they are without adding another 150 - 200k to improve the look and quality. 


    You’d be amazed at the pressure to reduce prices and waste building houses. For example the size of a window is influenced by the size of a concrete block to avoid having to cut a block. That saves a blocklayer about 10 minutes per window, half a bucket of cement and about 3 blocks. So if you’re looking at a window and thinking it should be 4 inches wider keep that in mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    The "extension from day 1" trend appears to have started during the tiger. There's lots of houses around here like that built in the past 15 years. Your one ticks a lot of the boxes

    Surrounded by barren site

    Corner window

    Fake stone glued onto the walls

    Ugly flat roof section

    Grey everywhere, will never be painted


    Really it should have the pointy opposing "darth vader" windows on the other side, maybe it does?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Those actually arent the worst, although they're not great



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    They are both equally prone to ugliness as far as I can tell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Agreed. We live in the ruins of a better civilisation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭SodiumCooled


    10 years is extreme but why the need to finish everything from day 1? There is more important things to put money into especially with the current level of prices. We want to get our house built and enough finished so we can move in asap, get enough interior rooms finished to a high standard (kitchen, master bedroom etc) to enable us to live there and then finish the rest as we go. Things like garden, spare bedrooms etc are very low priority, painting we plan to do all ourselves so will be gradual. This is the normal way of doing things with self-builds.

    I think someone said earlier that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and this is definitely true for houses. To me that's a very nice house, nice modern design and as I had another thread on it no point denying I am very much considering no facia and soffit for our own build - we are very 50:50 on it still as we are still undecided if it will suit our house. It really suits that house you have linked to.


    Personally speaking one thing I really dislike on new (or old houses as they have them too) are pointed church like windows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,515 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore



    The lack of a facia is the least worst thing about this abortion. A jumble awkwardly clumped together.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭Nermal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭Spudmonkey


    All periods in time have their own style. Nowadays its a more minimalist style possibly passed off as Kirving mentioned above with the subtext of cost saving. And it makes sense to build nowadays with all the advantages that we have in terms of larger windows, better insulation, better quality products.

    I'm not sure if minimalist designs age well. At least they need a lot of maintenance and like all styles their time will eventually pass. There are a lot of things about the design of houses and I don't really know who is to blame (probably a mixture of planners/builders/owners). E.g north facing gardens/patios/conservatories, some modern houses completely dark despite an overwhelming abundance of windows, houses finished with the Dermot Bannon style box with huge windows staring out on a pile of sand two years after the house being built.

    I also really don't understand the size of houses out in the countryside. Some are absolutely massive and with only 3-4 people living in them. In years to come they will be impossible to heat to a reasonable standard. Had I built one of them myself I'd possibly have reduced the size and spent ~30k of that build on landscaping. You'd end up in a house with a nicer setting and easier to clean/heat.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,831 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    who wants to go back to the bad old days of 'bungalow blight' ??


    in my opinion these designs are much more considered, interesting and sited into the landscape than the above:




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Designs obviously far ahead of the typical 80s bungalow.

    People are running away with themselves though. Room sizes are getting out of hand and adding in typical features as required today, build cost is just through the roof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    2 & 4 are not bad. 3 would be OK too if it didn't have the god awful corner window



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,831 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    2 is terrible.

    Georgian bars in windows, fake curves to windows, unfunctional square quoins to external corners, dwelling cut into site, concrete front wall with mock balusters, house set into a lake of asphalt with terrible "drive around"


    2 is a lot more resolved design. respectably set into landscape, no obnoxious drive / car spaces. the corner window is obviously functional to take account for view.


    funny thing is both houses are probably similarly sized, but a world apart when it comes to design.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Most people are looking for that corner window. Lintel for that cost circa 10k never mind the window / door cost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,137 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    That doesn't look like a corner window to me, it looks like there's a steel pillar in it.

    I have a couple of proper corner windows in my 80s house and there's nothing in the corner except wooden window frame.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,462 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Of course there is a pole there.

    Doing a small corner window without a pole is ok but doing that build without corner support would not be possible with simple domestic construction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,283 ✭✭✭Deeec


    The 2 new designs you linked here are just as bad as the older houses you linked. I cant see how they sit into the landscape better - they are bland and boring. They will age really badly. Natural Stone should have been incorporated if they wanted it to sit into the landscape.

    Building houses is something the victorians and georgians got right. These houses were designed and built by true craftspeople. They are still as beautiful now as they were when they were built. Modern architecture is trully awful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,009 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    All the time here. We have it planted with grass, a hedge and some plants. My five year old loves sitting on the doormat to soak up the evening sun. We also have a bench and enjoy a coffee when it's mild.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,515 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    I have a soft spot for our tiny number of art deco buildings and mid-century housing. The latter were solid houses, ok they need to be brought up to spec insulation-wise, nice lines but spoiled with modern stuck-on 'improvements'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Another more pertinent reason for smaller windows was what was known as Glass Tax or Window Tax. This tax was introduced by the English parliament back in the 1690's and was abolished at the end of the 19th century. The more square feet of glass you had in your house the more tax you paid, so when building a house the poorer classes kept the no. of windows to the very minimium and as small as possible. On the other hand, the rich had huge windows on their houses to show off their wealth !



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