Bull or bullock

n1st · 27-04-2022 8:10am #1

One of the weanlings I purchased may not have been squeezed,he looks a bit strong.

I hope to sell in November, probably mart.

Should I get him squeezed or cut and when?

Should I do nothing?

Danzy · 27-04-2022 9:02am

He might be a rig, a badly squeezed bullock.

Can you put up a photo from the back.

kk.man · 27-04-2022 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058243431/bull-or-bullock

They thrive brilliantly, if you were to finish him I wouldn't touch him. He would be safe enough(but have your wits about you) if he came in a group and stayed in that same group for you to herd.

893bet · 27-04-2022 11:27am

Can a rig get a heifer in calf?

Dunedin · 27-04-2022 1:14pm

Yes

Danzy · 27-04-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118983059#Comment_118983059

Had a White head bullock here kill out at 440 kgs one time, a rig.

If you are marting him, leave him, cutting them takes a good bit out of him.

Do you have heifers there, that would be a problem

Bass Reeves · 27-04-2022 7:37pm

I am not sure I recommend leaving him a bull as you are not familiar with having them. Having said that you need to have one to learn about them. If you finish rigs are great to put up weight but unless you have a regular factory that you go to I be wary of getting penalised on him if he goes over 24 months.

If you are reselling him in a mart you may need to announce it or sell him separate to other bullocks. As well you need to sell him 4 months before 24 months as finishers start discounting as it can be trickier to offload I we 24 month rigs if the develop necks or if the ball is very visible

feirmeoir101 · 27-04-2022 8:08pm

I was just about to post the exact same query. I bought bullocks but one of them was a little smaller and squatter than the rest, I presumed maybe he was half squeezed and didn't think too much of it. He's Angus. They're a super quiet bunch and easy to handle. Just a week ago, some neighbour's heifers and cows were put into the next field. Since then, his behavior has changed, he is hanging out by the fence, he isn't walking with the others, i took another look and his balls are now quite visible and he's developing a bit of a neck. I swear all these changes seem to have taken place in a week.

Most worryingly, he stood up immediately this evening when I approached them and never took his eye off me the whole time while the others didn't throw me a second look. He made a few pawing gestures on the the ground. That freaked me out. We don't have super handling facilities for a bull and I want him gone. However as my father recently passed away, I don't yet have herdkeeper status and won't for a month or so.

He's 24 months in May. Will the Department make an allowance for a dangerous animal and allow me to bring him to a factory? Will a vet squeeze at that age or is that madness to even ask? I've seen it done on 14-15 month old cattle, never any older.

Will a factory accept him even though he's only 5 weeks on the farm?

epfff · 27-04-2022 8:35pm

Factory won't be keen on him less than 70 days also a bull has a poor fat cover even after feeding.

I'm thinking factory not an option. Send him back to mart (leave money with mart until herd keeper sorted/buy replacement contra) and announce him as strong to cover yourself incase factory declare him a bull at end of line. At the minute lots of feeders will be happy to take him on.

I find some of the rigs harder to handle in the shed than bull's they tend to be more aggressive towards there roommates.

Anto_Meath · 28-04-2022 11:14am

Rigs are totally unpredictable, they can be nice and quite, never give an issue or they can be total trams up and down along fences bauling at other cattle near by and digging the ground out of it, you never know when they will change. They can be very dangerous too, we had a lad here one time and when mid summer came around you couldn't go into the field with the fecker. First chance we got then he was off to the factory, now he paid well and left a good return due to the thrive he had done but wasn't worth the hassle. We had an other lad that was as quite as a lamb, but he did manage to bull 3 heifers. The second lad was home born and only had 1 stone when squeezed, we thought the other might drop but it never did. We have had others over the years that weren't as memorable and were managed fine but you always had to be careful of them.

@feirmeoir101 Sorry about your dad (I was in the same position in 2015) if you aren't comfortable having him around the place land him back to the mart, have him announced as strong and he will be sold no problem. Cheque will most likely paid to the Reps of the late Mr feirmeoir which you can pass on to the solicitor handling your late fathers estate. You could call the Dep of Ag before hand to inform them on safety grounds you are selling the animal and they will be fine about it.

@n1st If you can I would squeeze him, yes he will give a better thrive as a bull / rig but as said above you never know when he will become difficult and if you are afraid of him or not able to handle him then the extra thrive is of no benefit. If he is squeezed he would be a more salable animal in the mart come next November,

n1st · 29-04-2022 9:02pm

Heres the boyo. Black AAX 14 months

His bits a defo twice as large as his counterparts

Bass Reeves · 29-04-2022 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995039#Comment_118995039

Definately looks like he is still a bull. He needs to be squeezed if you are holding onto him. There should be s local farmer that can do it

StevenToast · 29-04-2022 9:25pm

If it was me...id leave him alone as long as he was quiet...he will be a smashing animal for a finish...

n1st · 29-04-2022 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995128#Comment_118995128

I rang the vet today, 55 euro plus 10 per animal to squeeze, very reasonable. I'll be getting him, there could be another.

Bass Reeves · 29-04-2022 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995162#Comment_118995162

If there is any other jobs you require do e by the vet have them lined up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995153#Comment_118995153

Yes he would finish better and heavier as a bull. However OP is not used to bulls. It s pain walking into a field where there is a single rig or bull. Watching yourself to be aware where he is all the time. Making sure you are never too far from a ditch or fence. Making sure you have 2-3 animals always between you and him. It's not the worth the hassle.

The margin is seldom much of a difference. He need intensive feeding to finish. He looks an R grade AA. At present he make 4.8 base+20cQA+10-20c AA bonus. 5.1-5.2/ kg. As a bull you would be at 4.7-4.8/ kg.

Bullock320 kg DW@5.1/ kg=1632

Bull 360kg DW@4.8/ kg=1728

Bull will eat 2-300kgs more in ration

By the way OP I wof ring and complain to the Mart as well you bought him.in a bullock ring and he not a bullock

epfff · 29-04-2022 10:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995162#Comment_118995162

You must be working on higher margins than me. Lol

Think you are legally obliged to get vet and use anastic once the animal is over 6 months.

Bass Reeves · 29-04-2022 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995425#Comment_118995425

Give an anaesthetic yes no requirement for a vet.

n1st · 30-04-2022 8:29am

I'm presuming its squeeze and not a cut.

I don't mind sending 60 euro to have it done right.

As you said there might be other jobs that turn up, I'll ask the vet to quickly inspect all.

feirmeoir101 · 30-04-2022 8:53am

Thanks @epfff and @Anto_Meath He's on the way to the mart, he looked exactly like the photo @n1st posted, similar size bag, he was fine for moving and loading but I feel a hundred times better, it's a complete pain checking his position in the field, making sure you're close to a fence etc. couldn't spend the summer at that. As soon as I had him loaded I could resume walking in through the rest of the cattle which is vital for checking them and keeping them quiet for handling. Thanks for your advice all 👍

893bet · 30-04-2022 9:55am

When giving local for squeezing where do you inject and how much?

Always squeeze them young myself as too much of a pain minding them from heifers.

Jim_11 · 01-05-2022 10:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996337#Comment_118996337

The vet cut a bunch of bulls here in the past few weeks, 13-14months old, (should have squeezed them last year but didn’t get to it). squeezing would be hard on them at that age, they’d go way back. Very little set back here after cutting

Belongamick · 01-05-2022 10:17pm

Had one here from a bought in wean-ling - it was into summer when he started to look a bit on the bull side.

Biggest problem was if I wanted to move the group, the group would follow his lead and it became torture to move them from paddock to paddock or across a road etc. He was quite but I was getting a bit weary and he was sent to the mart where I told them he was a bull. I expected to be fleeced but in actual fact the opposite happened and he went well on the day. Don't want another.

CHOPS01 · 02-05-2022 10:58pm

3 years ago bought 2 Hex in the mart. Owner had 2 more but didn't sell in the ring so did a deal with him outside. All about 24 months old, Only when I got em home I really noticed one was a bit bullish in his appearance. Bag looked fine but had a bit of a thick neck.

He was quiet and I had no reason to be nervous of him. That was until about 3 weeks later I came home one evening and he was inside with the neighbours pedigree prize winning Charolais cows purring and pawing the ground. Went over to get him out and now I was nervous of him. Gave me a fcuking look and it put the shivers through me. Managed to get him into the yard and stuck him into a house.

Rang the vet and asked him if he was passing would he call and handle him. Fully squeezed on one side but poorly on the other. Highly unlikely to breed but I didn't want him around the place.

Rang the previous owner, and just told him I wanted him gone and just pay me back what I paid for him. In fairness he did and didn't create any hassle.

n1st · 19-05-2022 7:42pm

Resolved.

Vet came today, found one ball still intact. Now squeezed.

Interestingly I noticed in the last 2 weeks that his behavior changed, he'd stand back behind the rest and watch me.

Great bullock, hopefully he stays that way.

Vet squeezed with zero issue, not as I remember it as a child, diy was not the best. For the sake of ~50 euro definitely worth it in my opinion.

Thanks for the advice, ye were bang on.

funkey_monkey · 19-05-2022 11:03pm

@n1st - Good to hear. Hopefully he'll be easier handled now.

@feirmeoir101 - hope you got a decent price for him, but better to be rid regardless in your scenario. In a similar position to yourself taking over from father (along with a brother) so condolences and good luck.

greysides · 22-05-2022 2:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995765#Comment_118995765

Legally, it is a job for a vet, though that may always happen. Use of the obligatory analgesia/aneasthesia would also make it fall into the vet realm.

Bull or bullock

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