How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

You're twisting people's words again. Yes there are certainly Catholic/Nationalist players/fans from the North who support the Rugby team. So stop crying about it and make suggestions that would be acceptable to all the people who play/support Rugby in the north. Go on, rack your brain there and then ignore this post as you know damn well you have no answers.

"Grattan's Parliament" refers to the Parliament of the Kingdom of Ireland between 1782 and 1800.

One of the mechanisms that kept the Kingdom of Ireland subordinate to Britain was "Poyning's law" — an Act (of the Irish parliament) which provided that no legislation could be enacted by the Irish parliament unless it had first been approved by the English Privy Council - i.e. English/British ministers. The English authorities could either veto proposals entirely or alter or amend them before they were considered by the Irish parliament.

The Irish parliament represented a narrow political ascendancy - a small class consisting of"

• Gaelic/Norman families that had accepted Anglicanism and British rule and thereby held on to (some of their) land and status - e.g. the O'Briens, the Butlers
• English families granted land in the Tudor settlements - e.g. the Brabazons, the Chichesters
• Families descended from Cromwellite adventurers who had been granted land in Ireland, expropriate from the losing side in the Confederate wars - the Fosters, the Clotworthys.

For most of the seventeenth and and much of the eighteenths centuries, this political ascendancy was very insecure. Largely alien to the bulk of the population in nationality, culture, language and religion, and mostly insecure in the possession of their land (whose former owners, now tenants, were still around) they were very aware that they were kept in power by English/British military force. Thus the fact that the kingdom was politically dependent on England/Britain was simply a reflect of the reality that it was militarily dependant on England/Britain.

By the late eighteenth century, however, nearly a hundred years after any serious military disturbance in Ireland, the protestant ascendancy began to acquire some self-confidence and sense of security, and to become more assertive, demanding increased political authority and taking advantage of the stresses imposed on the British government by the American revolution to press for it.

One of the manifestations of this was the substantial (but not complete) repeal of Poyning's law - from 1782 the British privy council could no longer amend legislative proposals to be put to the Irish parliament (though it could still veto them). This meant there was more bargaining about what would and what would not be considered by the Irish parliament; the British no longer controlled its agenda unilaterally. "Grattan's Parliament" refers to the period after 1782, when the Irish parliament had this greater measure of legislative independence.

This didn't translate to true independence, by any means. Irish government officials were still appointed from Britain, for example, and of course the British could still veto proposed Irish legislation outright, or instruct the Lord Lieutenant (appointed by Britain, always an Englishman) to withhold the royal assent from any Bill that had been enacted. But it was a step towards greater independence, and the British feared pressure for further steps. They also feared, with one eye on the American experience, what might happen if they resisted that pressure. These fears were among the considerations that led them ultimately to promote and carry through the Acts of Union in 1800.

The irony of this post is incredible. 

and of course factually incorrect as usual from Tom. To suggest there are no catholic players or fans in the NI football team is just absurd.

Where did I 'try' this downcow?

I challenged you on your nonsense about the Irish rugby team.

With regard to the NI team, we have been here before and I know you struggle with it.

GSTQ is the English anthem, it underscores the fact that NI is not a country. It cannot agree an anthem or a flag as a result. It has to be imposed.

And many within NI don't consider themselves British and so that anthem doesn't represent them.

The rugby team and supporters have no such issues in the main (northern Irish participation and support is on a par with other parts of Ireland) and that is why there is no push of any significance to change it. Downcow has been challenged before and now to point to it.

NI soccer seems realise that it is not representative and change is coming from within, which is to be welcomed.

No downcow, no.

There is NO significant issue in rugby...you tried and failed to show it was an issue.

By your own admission here on these forums it is a huge issue in soccer because how could GSTQ represent all. And credit where it is due NI soccer is taking steps to sort that out.

Rugby supporters and players have pride in the Irish team because they are not conflicted on the issue. Their support is the proof of that. There is little to no issues and support is on a par with the rest of Ireland's regions.

Not uncomfortable enough to not support the Irish team in the case of rugby or to participate in an All Ireland organisation.

Fascinating fact of the day; the UK doesn't have an "official national anthem". There is no royal proclamation, no Act of Parliament, no Order in Council, designating GSTQ as the national anthem. It's simply custom and practice that crown/government agencies use it when they want a representative piece of music.

It functions in practice as the representative anthem of the UK state (the Crown), but the state/the Crown is distinct from the people. People or groups of people (like sporting associations) are free to adopt any representative anthem they want, or none. No disloyalty is implied by not adopting GTSQ; if you're not the Crown or an agent of the Crown, it's not disloyal to not pretend to be the Crown, or an agent of the Crown.

Also, GTSQ is the de facto anthem of the UK, but not of its constituent countries. In the sporting context, the general trend - there are exceptions - is for representative teams which represent the whole UK to use GTSQ, but representative teams which represent parts of the UK to use other songs. At the Olympics, GTSQ is used for Team GB (which, despite its name, represents the whole of the UK) but at the Commonwealth Games, where England, Scotland, Wales and NI compete in separate teams, GTSQ is not used at all. The English cricket team uses "Jerusalem".

NI sporting associations are free to adopt GTSQ, but they are equally free to adopt any other anthem and, in the toxic sclerotic politics of that unhappy province, either choice is loaded with unavoidable political significance and is likely to give more offence than pleasure.

Going back to op question. Have we all agreed that it would be a good thing to consider a new anthem as an aid to integrating unionists in a hypothetical United country on this island? Is there any poster that thinks that should not be considered?

Now there’s a surprise. I thought listening to the recent posters on here that Ireland would have been way above my nation. Lol maybe I didn’t read far enough, but I can’t even find them.

Is it any wonder nationalists are wishing, in increasing numbers, to maintain our part in the one of the most influential countres in the world?

'Marketing-Interactive part of Brand Finance??? 😁😁😁😁😁

Oh dear jaysus!

Second interesting fact of the day - God Save the Queen (King) actually started as a music hall dirge in 1745/46 as a result of the Jacobite revolution. The mainly Highland Scottish army got within 100 miles of London so this song was sung in music halls almost as an act of defiance against the Jacobite army as they marched south.

Here are all the verses - the sixth / last is particularly interesting. Needless to say this is now not very popular in Scotland.

*******

Long live our noble Queen,

God save the Queen!

Send her victorious,

Happy and glorious,

Long to reign over us;

God save the Queen!

****

O Lord our God arise,

 Scatter her enemies

And make them fall;

Confound their politics,

Frustrate their knavish tricks,

On Thee our hopes we fix,

God save us all!

*****

Thy choicest gifts in store

On her be pleased to pour;

Long may she reign;

May she defend our laws,

And ever give us cause

 To sing with heart and voice,

 God save the Queen!

*******

Not in this land alone,

But be God’s mercies known,

From shore to shore!

 Lord make the nations see, 

That men should brothers be, 

And form one family, 

The wide world over.

*******

From every latent foe,

From the assassins blow,

God save the Queen!

O’er her thine arm extend,

For Britain’s sake defend,

Our mother, prince, and friend,

 God save the Queen!

********

Lord grant that Marshal Wade

May by thy mighty aid

Victory bring.

May he sedition hush,

And like a torrent rush,

Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the King!