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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,420 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    Any opinions on the Republican party removing Disney's special agreement with Florida regarding the area around Disney World?

    Personally, it doesn't sit well with me that a private corporation was able to have so much power and act as a local government. However, the reasons why this.move was taken are concerning. Essentially, an FU by DeSantis because Disney vowed to fight the law restricting discussion of LGBT+ topics with elementary school kids. Of course, we are being told its all about taxes and bringing Disney back in line (which, on the face of it, is a good thing) but the timing is extremely convenient. DeSantis has been governor since 2019, and Republicans have governed Florida since 1999, why wait til now?

    I see it this way: Disney IS a private company (like Twitter or Truth Social) so it is free to take whatever stance it wishes and run the company as it deems fit while the state of Florida is NOT and shouldn't be punishing companies that express concerns about legislation. Let's not forget that it isn't some legislation about taxing massive corporations but one on the education of future generations. It is certainly a concern for proponents of free speech.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,321 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    That last line is actually really sad, I pity you for being so brainwashed.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The thing with Disney is that it is ordinary Florida taxpayers that will carry the weight here.

    Disney will actually save a load of money, at least $180m a year by most estimates and local residents will now have to pick up that tab.

    Every resident in the two counties where Disney world is sited will see their Property Taxes increase by about 25% to cover the lost revenue.

    The deal they had basically allowed Disney to "tax themselves" to pay for stuff in Disney world- New roads, infrastructure, Fire/Police etc. It also allows them to be their own planning department so they could build a new hotel or whatever without having to go through the normal planning process. They still had to comply with building regulations etc.

    So now, because Disney said things that DeSantis didn't like, he has taken retribution and publicly said that this is the reason.

    This is a clear breach of the 1st amendment (not like Trump and Twitter) where the actual Government are blocking the free speech of its citizens.

    And remember, the GOP are the ones that decided that Companies are Citizens too via the Citizens United Supreme court case, so it will be nicely Karmic when this change in law gets overturned.

    Cancel culture eh?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,917 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I'd also say that the reasons Disney were given such special status was due to the increase in revenue the state and locality got from tourists visiting Disney. If there are going to be increased costs for Disney due to that special status being taken away, it'll barely affect Disney who will increase prices marginally to compensate, and even then with the movie licences and now Disney+, so much of their profits are made outside of the theme park. It'll be a bit of minor inconvenience for Disney, but if there ends up being fewer people visiting Disney, that's going to have a knock-on effect on the locality more so than Disney.

    This whole thing is entirely performative by de Santis, and his own comments on the matter will be all the proof required to get it overturned in courts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    That Disney thing is odd, they did seem to have a bit too much power for themselves but also seemed to have run a good ship, I’ve seen suggestions that the roads in Disney are some of the best kept in Florida. I really suspect though that the laws of unintended consequences may come into play, when you poke such a huge employer they may react in ways that haven’t been thought of when coming up with a way to punish them for not falling in line.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,917 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Hilarious to see that Trump is saying he wouldn't return to Twitter and will instead be posting on 'Troth Truth Central Truth Social' in about a week. Why wait so long? Why not post on it now? Why not post on it already after your first post?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Billion dollar conglomerate dodging tax = good.

    Being made pay taxes like the rest of the state = bad

    unbelievable the lengths people will go in the name of tribalism these days 🤣🤦‍♂️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,956 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    how were disney dodging tax? all DeSantis has done is ensure disney pay less tax and the local residents pay more. this was nothing to do with tax evasion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,917 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Law. The law is what matters most. Disney had a legal agreement to be able to pay less tax. This was in accordance with the law. De Santis pulling that agreement due to Disney's standing on social issues such as LGBT rights is likely illegal under First Amendment Protection. Likewise, Trump is being investigated for breaking tax laws in order to pay less tax. Again, that's bad because it's against the law.

    I disagree with big corporations, mega-churches etc being able to make such deals to pay less tax considering the insane profits they make and would make regardless. However, Disney were not dodging tax. They had a legal agreement to pay less tax which the State agreed to due to the extra revenue Disney brings to the State and therefore the overall increase in tax revenue they likely get from the increased tourism/spending in the State.

    Do you see anything wrong with a politician changing terms on legal agreements to punish corporations due to disagreeing with that company's position on social issues?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The Disney issue I suspect is going to end up being a major own-goal by DeSantis and the Florida GOP.

    As I posted earlier , Disney will now simply pass the cost of all of the "public" utilities that they have been paying for on to the two local counties which will drive up all the voters Property taxes quite substantially (like thousands of dollars each per year).

    Disney have also suggested in recent days that they will revoke the "Florida Resident discount" which gives people who live in Florida a ~40% discount on all ticket prices , which is a lot of money given the costs of tickets into the parks. Which again is even more money taken out of Florida voters pockets.

    When and if Disney go to court to have this over-turned , they will win almost instantly as it is as clear cut a case of Government interference in 1st amendment rights as you could picture.

    If DeSantis tries to find some other excuse to justify removing the deal from Disney (other than the explicit reason he already gave in public) then it opens up the argument that all such deals should be revoked , which again would hurt the GOP.

    The next largest deal of this type is for The Villages , the retirement community famous for it's rabid Trump/GOP support.

    How happy would they be with their costs increasing hugely I wonder??

    All in all it's a terribly thought out vindictive knee jerk reaction that is going to come back to bite DeSantis hard.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,042 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    As usual with their poorly thought out reactionary legislation they never think beyond their initial desired use and how it could easily be turned around right back at them in much more painful ways. Look at the dont say Gay bill there's already numerous valid arguments being brought to court for banning the bible for exactly the same reasons simply due to how broad and unspecific the original law is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    There is no such law that allows a company self govern themselves. Its was a special agreement and now that agreement is revoked because Disney meddled in Florida State politics. This move would never deter people from going to the park But Disneys "not so gay agenda for minors" certainly has.

    If you get your news from CNN Minus , which you do , you will be constantly uninformed about these issues. You guys like to ask a lot of questions so answer this one - Do you think kids as young as 5 can be part of the lgbtqt community? The proper answer is kids that young are neither gay nor straight. Therefore there needs to be legislation that prevents creeps from foisting their sexually obsessed lifestyles in kindergarten classrooms



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,956 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    You claimed earlier that disney were dodging tax and and now you say it was a special agreement. was the earlier post a lie?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    But that's not remotely what is going to happen AT ALL.

    Disney have not been avoiding taxes and the will not be paying a cent more in taxes as as result of this change - They'll pay a lot less in fact.

    Disney has been taxing itself at WAY above the going rates to fund the development/maintenance of the land - Roads , Drainage etc. along with funding the Police/Fire Department and the like, again at way above the going rate.

    Now , Disney will just stop paying that extra "tax" and ALL of that cost will now be carried by the residents of the two Florida counties that contain the Disney World Properties.

    All this change is going to do is make it more difficult for Disney to develop/expand Disney World which will have a knock on impact on employment both directly in Disney and indirectly in the surrounding areas as if Disney can't build a new ride or Hotel because they can no longer handle their own planning or indeed cover the costs of building a new road or whatever that is going to mean less jobs , less tourists and less money in the Florida economy in general.

    So - Just because DeSantis doesn't like people disagreeing him, in a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face he has targeted his States largest employer and made it more difficult for them to do business and at the same time has dramatically increased the property taxes for every resident in two of the most populous counties in his State.

    Like you say "unbelievable the lengths people will go in the name of tribalism these days"

    Awesome job Ron.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,715 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Did anyone actually say this? Most of the posts I saw were along the lines this may not work out well for de santis, not sure anyone actually stood up for Disney really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,917 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It was a special agreement between Disney and the State, which was legally allowed. Therefore, it was in accordance with the law. A company cannot self govern themselves, but the agreement made would have been subject to various conditions.

    The agreement was revoked because DeSantis wants to punish Disney for saying they'll no longer financially contribute to politicians who push anti-LGBT legislation.

    Also, for the last time, I don't get my news from CNN. I'm Irish. In Ireland. I don't have CNN. I don't want CNN. I barely even take any notice of RTE. You need to try to adjust and modify the usual pro-Trump arguments to suit an Irish audience.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It should also be pointed out that there are about 250 of these types of Agreement all across Florida so it's not just Disney that benefit from it.

    Multiple developments have similar deals , including as I posted earlier "The Villages" retirement community.

    It's a badly thought out, rushed spiteful change that looks like it's going to have lots of potentially unintended negative consequences for the people that implemented it and their supporters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,099 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Wait, isn't not paying taxes Smart? That what Trump supporters cheer. So surely this is something you should be steadfastly against. Yet another example the the unbelievable lengths people will go to in the name of tribalism these days!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,895 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I think the only time I've ever watched CNN is when I'm stuck in a Hotel in Eastern Europe or Asia and it and BBC World are the only English speaking channels available on Freeview.

    And even then it's usually some travel magazine program that's on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,256 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,917 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I watched it during the actual 2020 election results, but it was just something on in the background to get results as they came in. Then I had it on for maybe half an hour during the Jan 6th riot, but it was a pain trying to stream it (because it's not a channel I have access to) so I switched to Sky News (on Freeview as I don't have Sky). But all of that was just to get events as they happened live. I'm not interested in their opinion pieces or roundtable stuff.

    I would never actually sit watching the channel. I wouldn't do that for any news channel, but especially not an American news channel where the vast majority of discussion would be about politicians, laws, states that I have absolutely no interest in or little knowledge of. All news channels are biased in some way, as they're all trying to appeal to a particular audience. Besides, there are more than enough movies, TV and video games to keep me actually entertained. Sitting and watching any news channel for more than 10 minutes? F*ck that.

    If something important happens on CNN that's worth watching, it'll be reposted on Twitter by others. Same with every news/opinion channel. But the idea that I or really anyone here in Ireland gets their news from CNN? Absolutely ludicrous.



  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tad telling when poster starts to refer to being LGBT as a "lifestyle". As already pointed out, since children can have same sex parents. I see absolutely nothing wrong with telling kids that such relationships are as normally as any other. Why does this upset you so? 😘



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    There is no anti-LGBT legislation in Florida. That's a lie , or what somebody like you would call "misinformation" It seems you support and even enact in misinfo when it suits your agenda , funny that.

    I asked you a very simple question and you avoided it like that plague because that's a road you don't want to go down. I'll expose you and you know it.

    Furthermore , whether you do or don't watch CNN is irrelevant. You've posted enough twitter links on here that informed me exactly what sort of news you consume , and it all aligns up the the CNN fake news narrative . For example, Scott Randolph who wrote that piece about Florida's taxes is a contributor to CNN..Oops. lol!! 🐸



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,099 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    What would call legislation that prohibits people even talking about it? Is there is a similar law stopping people talking about hetrosexual relationships? If not, why not? If it isn't anti-lgbt then what is it?


    Was this special agreement with Disney high on the political agenda before Disney started to show empathy towards the LGBT community? Maybe it was, maybe this has been a burning issue in Florida for years. But the timing does seem very coincidental that soon after Disney had the neck to have an opinion that differs from De Santis, suddenly De Santis is all over them and looking to 'punish' them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,917 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It's anti-LGBT legislation because it significantly impacts LGBT people, particularly those working as teachers in schools, or children of LGBT children in schools, and even LGBT children. You yourself referred to it as legislation "that prevents creeps from foisting their sexually obsessed lifestyles". If you don't see how your own language in referring to it is anti-LGBT, you're blind.

    The reason I didn't address it is because I already addressed it a lot with another poster here who was subsequently thread-banned due to his extreme anti-LGBT rhetoric. I have no problem discussing it, but it's a Trump (and usually more general GOP) thread and I'm trying to not bring the thread down that rabbit hole again. I stand by my previous posts though so if you want to know my opinion on it, feel free to find and read those posts.

    Regarding "whether you do or don't watch CNN is irrelevant". I would say it's entirely relevant in response to:

    If you get your news from CNN Minus , which you do , you will be constantly uninformed about these issues.

    You were wrong.

    Lastly:

    You've posted enough twitter links on here that informed me exactly what sort of news you consume , and it all aligns up the the CNN fake news narrative . For example, Scott Randolph who wrote that piece about Florida's taxes is a contributor to CNN..Oops. lol!!

    What Scott Randolph tweet regarding Florida's taxes did I post? You say I've posted enough Twitter links to inform you what sort of news I consume (yet you were spectacularly wrong when claiming I get my news from CNN), and use an example of a Scott Randolph tweet about Florida's taxes, and that he's a contributor to CNN. Which Scott Randolph tweet did I post? I literally just had to Google him because I've never heard of him, and all I see was he was previously a member of the Florida House of Representatives, and is currently the Florida Orange County Tax Collector. I'd say that would give him decent knowledge of the laws regarding Disney's agreements.

    Is this another Trump Gmail account situation? Do you think that because he contributed to one or two stories on CNN, that means he actually is CNN?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,420 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    What a bizarre obsession.

    Say a five-year old kid has same-sex parents. Is the kid allowed to mention that fact in the classroom? Is the teacher able to acknowledge it? I think it's very important to do so in order to avoid the mistakes of the past and move towards a more open and fairer society where people feel free to express themselves and be comfortable with who they are.

    I highly doubt pre-pubescent kids are going to be taught specific sexual techniques or encouraged to be one thing or the other. It really is as simple as saying: "In your life, you will meet couples who are same sex and opposite sex and there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with thinking that someone of the same sex is pretty, there are plenty of people out there who feel the same way."

    These are the facts of life. I have never met a homosexual who chose to be thst way but I've met a few who tried to force themselves to be heterosexual in order to be accepted, causing them to have a much more stressful and damaging childhood and adolescence as a result. They all knew from a young age what they were but, for one reason or another, couldn't accept it.

    It's incredibly dumb (at best) and downright spiteful (at worst) to deny kids who might feel that way the opportunity to know that there is nothing wrong and that there are many others like them out there. It will save a lot of suffering and increase acceptance for future generations.

    Considering Disney is a company with a lot of focus on children, it is nice to see that they are thinking about their customers' well-being as opposed to the government denying them access to information that will help them at a time in their lives when they are developing their personalities and lifelong traits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,042 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I do find the projection funny where they accuse everyone else of it but its really the homophobes seemingly who are the ones obsessed with sex and in the case of florida specifically gay sex as they cant seem to stop talking about it so much so they even had to make a law to try to stop themselves talking about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    We did chat about it before, and you know the outcome dont you, things turned nasty and someone got a holiday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,256 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    It's all about culture wars with his followers.

    Couldn't talk policy to save their lives.

    Fox et al just generate these fictional baddies, it's repeated online and next thing you know, you've got people outside Disney protesting.

    It's extraordinary.

    Up until they were told what to be angry about, they couldn't give two sh1ts what Disney did.

    Must be great for the right to be able to play this trick on their followers. They probably have a list of inane topics they can use going forward to get their online warriors fired up over.

    "Next up on Fox, did you know that Ben & Jerry are trying to turn your kids gay? Why can't they be called Ben & Jeri, like a normal couple?"

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,888 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Its amazing the way that you constantly stereotype 65m people in a country.

    You keep saying "They" "The Right" "His supporters" as if they are a hive mind of some sort.

    Its really really condescending and ignorant.



This discussion has been closed.
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