How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

Thankfully even Unionists are no longer buying this biased rag. Down to less than 8000 circulation.

Hard to take that branch of Unionism on 'integration' when you read stuff like this.

Fairly transparent rewrite of what I asked you, which was about the Irish language and the myth you like to peddle, here it is again:

Wrong again.

I have been very clear with mods etc that I definitely do not believe they are out to get me. I have always told them that I appreciate their work and that I have zero doubt their intention is to be scrupulously fair.

this is the very issue. People work and live within cultures. You will know that policies are rarely followed in workplace by new employees , they simply adopt the culture of the place.

this is what I mean that most nationalists have not reached square one on the self reflection around discrimination eg they blindly assume that there is nothing to even consider around placing Irish road signage in mixed areas and anybody who questions this is just a ‘belligerent unionist’

Openly admitting you won't answer the question. Ok, I think I can take it you accept what I said but aren't big enough to say it.

I'd suggest you read the context of the previous posts, Freddie. The relative economies of NI and Ireland were brought up in the context of James Craig's pronouncement that future historians should compare the success of NI and Ireland, I merely pointed out that by the expectations of Craig, NI has clearly and obviously been much less successful than the 26 counties that got out from under the cosh of British rule, despite the inherent economic headstart NI had at the time of partition.

If you look up the economies of the UK, it certainly includes NI, as NI is part of the UK (a fact I've never disputed), if you look up the economy of NI, you'll find stand alone data for it, as sad a picture as that paints.

If you look up the economies of the EU, it includes Ireland, as Ireland is a part of the EU. If you look up the economy of Ireland, you'll find stand alone data for that. Ireland is just as much a part of the EU as NI is of the UK (though per capita Ireland has a greater say on EU affairs than NI has ever had on UK affairs). Why one would compare the two should be quite obvious.....both are constituent parts of larger unions.

Certainly there has been no fence sitting by the UK when it comes to international affairs, unfortunately for every tick in the positive box there's quite a few in the negative too.

It is easy to point out the vaccine roll out as a success if one ignores the sh*t show that was the UK's initial response to the pandemic and the overall mortality rate Covid had there. Likewise it is easy to point to WWII if one ignores the countless wars the UK fought in which they were the aggressors or expansionists, or the damage they did across the world by raping their colonies of resources for the wealth and privilege you still enjoy today. Your museums are full of evidence, Freddie.

Ireland unequivocally has more say in what happens in the EU than NI has on what happens in the UK. This isn't even debatable.

I find you posts over the last few days quite difficult to respond to as I see you continually spinning (or misunderstanding my posts).

I was not imply anything about the ira. I was implying other stuff that people are inclined to associate the Irish around their perceived adherence to their faith and what embarrassing picture that paints - but now you mention it, in certain places the ira no doubt comes to mind.

I am not offended by you mentioning flags and parades. I certainly do defend the vast majority of flags and parades and visitors find them an interesting and curios aspect of our identity.

my problem was you boiling NI down to four things, all fairly political, divisive and somewhat controversial.

this is why I don’t have the energy to enter another debate on who has the best country. There is a whole thread on that and it was the same old same old. I love living in NI. Nobody I know would swap it for the south. The quality of life of the masses is great afaik. You probably have a similar view of you country and that’s fine with me.

the gap has closed massively, but for you to suggest that roi has always been even close to the financial quality of life is absurd. When I was younger Everything from your roads to your telephones was regarded as of another time to what we had in the Uk. I still wouldn’t dream of suggesting that was any anyway a measurement of quality of life. Any time I visited Donegal people seemed remarkably happy and content with their donkeys, single lane tracks, little cottages and fantastic community spirit. It would be gold dust now

I work for an all-island org and my clear sense is that when we chat about life in either country they are envious of many aspects of our life. I am not being disingenuous (and it may simply be my lack of knowledge) but I can’t think of a single thing I envy about those guys situation

The degressive proportionality of European Parliament which gives Ireland dounle the representation per capita of either Germany or France would be an obvious example, Freddie.

The lack of FPTP voting which means we don't end up in a situation like the UK, where a majority government only has the support of a significant minority of the population, let alone how the structure of Westminster means that NI is essentially irrelevant.

The EU's propensity to seek unanimity would be another obvious contrast when compared with the Brexit vote where neither Scotland nor NI voted for it, but they're stuck with it anyway.

Care to give any counter examples?

What country are you referring to? The north is not a country and never will be. Not even the British consider it a country. The UK is three countries and a portion of another country the majority of which is no longer in the UK. There's an awful lot of self-deception required to be a committed unionist, isn't there?

To some people in the North, a united Ireland would mean a foreign government, not even British, overriding their democratic wishes.

A situation worse than the one you paint. You have no clue of the other perspectives and you appear unable to understand them.

I don't deny that the British currently have jurisdiction of the region (as they once did for the whole of Ireland) but let's be honest here - it is not a country. Also, what you describe as 'bitterness' is a dislike of having a border imposed on us that has caused, and continues to cause, serious problems for the people of Ireland.

Just yesterday we had a former head of RUC special branch and 'top' Orange Order man invoking the memory of UVF gun runners who threatened a campaign of mass murder against us. I'm genuinely worried about some innocent sod getting murdered by so-called Loyalists and a low-level Troubles like situation re-emerging because of the treachery of the British Government in Ireland.

I want this shit to end and the only way to end it permanently is to remove the toxic influence British jurisdiction has on this place. I find the British ruling classes playing the Orange card deeply concerning - those fuckers did not give a shit when young people were dying in the ditches in the north during the Troubles as long as it was contained.

I'm a British/Irish dual national by birth actually, Freddie. It's something I'm very comfortable with, and just filled in a short while ago on the latest census down here.

A fact that an awful lot of avowedly anti-Irish DUP members were very glad of when they went applying for their Irish passports post Brexit.

As someone who is British by birth, am I not allowed to criticise the government of my home? That sounds a bit more like China or North Korea than any democratic society I'd be comfortable with.

Apart from the weak attempt at hoping I'd be annoyed by your silly little dig, would you care to address any of the actual points raised in my post?

Are you suggesting that NI didn't systemically discriminate against the CNR community? That gerrymandering didn't take place or that British soldiers didn't shoot children?

Or am I being bitter by stating that those things won't happen should Unification occur?

I can't be held responsible for your insecurity over the actions of your government and armed forces, Freddie. I'm not bitter at all, but even if I was, I'd have damn good reason to be. I can understand how Downcow could be bitter given the actions of the PIRA, but you? You're just some eejit shouting from the sidelines without an iota of lived experience. Simply put, you don't have half a clue what you're talking about.