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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    The Germans are really not endearing themselves to the Ukrainians at all. I read that a German arms exporter was even offering to send arms to Ukraine at no cost but their application to export was turned down by Berlin.

    Germany should be driving the European response. Instead within the EU it's the Baltic nations, the Czechs, Slovaks and Poland with a now outside the EU UK. A ban on Russian hydrocarbons would cripple Russia's ability to carry on the criminal endeavour of this invasion.

    History won't be kind to Scholzs government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,116 ✭✭✭✭everlast75




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,818 ✭✭✭threeball


    No, what's utterly ridiculous is spending large sums of money to keep a facility open for a handful of people who obviously are quite happy where they are or would have left already. Going by your logic we should open an embassy in North Korea and maybe one in the Antarctic incase some Tom Crean wannabe decides he wants to take a saunter across the ice caps and gets in a spot of bother.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Flat pack planes from IKEA. Hopefully there are no screws missing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,734 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    Ah yes the old brexiteer argument of 80% of the worlds population been outside of Europe/the west. That’s also where 80% (probably more) of the worlds poverty is.

    Russia is a country that has millions of people employed in troll farms and security/ policing going around watching for people holding up blank signs on the street and changing tags on supermarket shelves. Real productive use of human capital there. It also has thousands more incarcerated for stupid harmless offences and it’s smartest people are leaving the country in droves or are exiled. It’s going nowhere as a country. China is worse and has even more people employed in unproductive insane big brother roles to protect the regime. Outside the big cities it is a medieval country. In living memory the Chinese spent their time banging pots and pans to stop swallows from nesting resulting in a massive famine. Autocracies tend to collapse under the weight of their own bullshit.

    Post edited by 20silkcut on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Alot of questions...I must have annoyed you. No I'm Irish with no German links whatsoever. I mainly just read along rather than post, and find the thread useful as a news aggregator. I don't have that many (or maybe any) unique thoughts or insight about this situation to share that others better able are not already doing a good job of providing so don't always post.

    I don't agree at all with the hysterical bile about the Germans (Russia's "ally" in the war one would almost believe and "blood on its hands") that gets dished out here (mostly by @Danzy in fairness but not exclusively by him!).

    I don't think it is good for anyone, and it deserves to have someone challenge it in text with a small dose of reality + perspective and a reminder of Ireland's own flaws. This is an Irish focussed site after all isn't it, it is Ireland most of us will know best perhaps.

    Noone else seemed to be doing it this particular evening, and so I posted. You have a point that maybe I've done somewhat too much of it now (and becoming a broken record/bore), so will try and refrain from now on.

    On the embassy, there are alot more than 4 staff in there anyway...read in some other reports that the embassy complement of "diplomats" is completely outsized e.g. below article states there are 31 actual diplomats in it and presumably other staff helping them too:

    As said, despite the large complement I assume we expelled just 4, because, and I speculate here, our own embassy in Russia is likely of a more normal size given population of Irish in Russia and trade links (i.e. it is tiny) - so if we expel a big block of Russians and Russia just retaliates in tit for tat fashion it will either be rendered unable to do any work or closed.

    As for us being "entirely on our own" in face of any threat from Russia, we are not as we are an EU member same as a number of others that are in EU, and neutral, and still I believe did not equivocate somewhat on the EU aid facility as we did (this was/has been my main personal gripe with what Ireland has done - edit: I should say it is not a "major" gripe + think we've most done a good job). I don't think we'd be left entirely to our own devices either if a military (or some "grey zone" type) attack was launched by Russia on the country, but I admit you are right to point out we are more exposed given we're defenceless against any type of aggression whatsoever (unlike those other "neutrals") as well as being in no military alliance.

    Yes, I agree far more is rightly expected of Germany than of us given its position and influence, the huge size of its economy, its arms industry etc. etc. Maybe not its military, as everything I've been reading suggests it is in a very poor state and not at all ready for war (or to help another country fight a war by giving supplies) despite a rapid increase in spending over last couple of years. It is still useful to reflect IMO on what Ireland is actually doing or not doing here in its own much smaller and far less vital way when people here take up the cudgels about all the German failings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    These look like they could be very useful for the Ukrainians. 300 to 500 km range depending on the munitions loaded.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,161 ✭✭✭wassie


    Relocating from Russia back to Ireland does sound like a no brainer....until you exit Dublin airport to find you cant get a rental or buy a house!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,818 ✭✭✭threeball


    Excellent, stick a couple of starstreak systems and javelins close by to protect them and they could bring untold hell for advancing Russia troops. Real morale killers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ronivek


    I'm highly sceptical this is a video of equipment being transferred to Ukraine.

    Considering they're only just talking about training Ukrainians on howitzers in some "unnamed eastern European country"; I don't see why or how they would have transferred a bunch of these vehicles. They also look brand new to me; although they could just be well maintained.

    Also the M142 HIMARS has a range of up to 300km; I don't see anyone transferring weapons to Ukraine with that kind of range. It's also compatible with precision guided munitions; again a capability I can't imagine Ukraine being given.

    I sincerely hope I'm wrong though; because these would be amazing for Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ronivek


    Large sums of money? How much are we talking about here?

    I mean despise Russia all you want; but closing the embassy serves no purpose other than to make it more difficult for Russian people who legitimately want to stay in Ireland to access consular services and vice versa for Irish people in Russia who can't leave or might be in the process of trying to leave.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    It's only few spare parts as in a few pieces .

    No complete aircraft or functional aircraft from anyone ,the gas thing is America has Russian Migs and suhkoi jets they bought off the likes of Moldova, add the 30 mig 29s from Poland they could give Ukraine 60 odd combat aircraft,

    If they don't or won't let them have jets give them predator and reapers with as many hellfire missles they can give ,

    Even the newer variant that comes with 2 miniguns and 10 + hellfires would be an absolute game changer to the Ukrainians .

    Give them C-rams to take out incoming missles and rockets too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ronivek


    I agree with you about the hyperbole being bandied about: Germany had a strategy to keep Russia close to Europe and the EU and to try and develop trade and other ties. Ultimately the strategy failed; but nobody knows what the alternative would have looked like either. Maybe a more isolated Russia might have invaded Ukraine fully in 2014 and Ukraine would have collapsed completely; who knows.

    In any case I think the focus should be not on what Germany may or may not have done in the past; it should be about what it's doing right now. And unfortunately I don't think they're doing nearly enough (for all the reasons already stated).

    I mean I definitely think we could do more and send some military vehicles for example; but we equally have to remember that our military neutrality has been a fairly core part of our national identity and also our diplomatic and international identity. I don't think the benefits to Ukraine that our measly supply of armoured vehicles could provide are such that it would be a clear reason to drop our military neutrality and sacrifice whatever little diplomatic power we might be able to leverage in the future. And also there is the threat of Russia making an example out of us in some way.

    As for the diplomats I'm all for expelling more but I also think it's important to keep diplomacy and consular services alive; I don't see how it benefits anyone to force embassies to close. We should be welcoming Russians who genuinely don't want anything to do with their government; and having a working embassy is one of the ways we can do that.

    I definitely agree that we should be critical of everyone's response and not just dumping on Germany constantly; I made a couple of posts today mentioning that somehow France and Macron have been forgotten about even though they're the biggest EU army and seem to have given the least support of anyone beyond talking the ear off Putin.

    And apologies if I came across aggressively; wasn't my intention.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭maebee


    Better than being trapped in the basement of your house in Maripuol with no food or water and being bombed by your neighbour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,441 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I believe most European professional footballers and coaching staff who were playing in the Russian league left the country for the reasons you outline. It would be nigh on impossible to remain in a country of war criminals and warmongers etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    What you call hysterical bile against Germany by me and a few others, the others including leading German investigate journalists, the Ukrainian Govt, numerous German economists, ex Ministers, leading Governing party members, academics, nearly every govt in Eastern Europe, the French PM etc etc etc.


    It's not anti German, it's Anti Putin, Just putting pressure on one of his only allies.

    If Germany walks away from Russia, it's over for Putin and the war in Ukraine.


    If they continue as is then Putin will win through taking East of Dneiper, in a war of attrition and mass loss.


    Germany will then step in as peace maker and settle the new territory of Russia in to a new order in Eastern Europe.


    Berlin will get cheap gas and deals on resources in payment for a job well done.


    It may well overplay it's hand and face a united Eastern Europe who have seen it unmasked. As is Germany has destroyed its name in Eastern Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,441 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    UK Defence Ministry say they believe Russia has made very little actual progress in the East in the last 24 hours - that's an encouraging sign.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Ukraine has apparently increased it's military aircraft fleet after receiving military aid from an undisclosed state,

    America sent a few wings and other parts literally a few bits but no complete functional aircraft,but someone sent something that flys




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    You've lost perspective when you claim they have blood on their hands or responsibility for the war or are somehow allied with Russia/have a pro Russian agenda here. That to me is anti German, not just anti German govt. or anti German policy. edit: I haven't seen those "others" you mention come out with anything like the aggression you have (apart perhaps from the Ukrainians at times - see below). I don't see how it helps. Much of that post is mad stuff - sorry.

    I don't think an energy trade embargo by Germany means the war just stops the next day it is imposed. It will do to Russia faster what the existing sanctions are doing more slowly, it won't make Russia's stocks of weapons (old but still good for wrecking cities) and military manpower just disappear.

    As to the Ukrainians their perspective here is probably not the clearest either as they are fighting for their lives. They also want NATO to effectively go to war for them and fight Russia ("close the sky"). I don't see anyone, even US/UK that are praised vs Germany for better support to Ukraine, rushing in to do that right now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,475 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Good news. But far too late. This should have happened weeks ago. But still, they will be put to good use.

    While the aircraft are probably soviet era ones that UA pilots can fly, i wonder if the armaments' have also been upgraded!

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,919 ✭✭✭GM228


    The planes obviously came from Germany.......🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Completely agree, and I think there's a pattern beginning to show - every time Putin escalates, the military aid to Ukraine increases, thereby putting Putin in a feedback situation and making him the cause of every effect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ronivek


    It's great that they're finally getting some artillery supplies; it was artillery that did a lot of the damage to Russia during the initial days of the war (and ever since in fact).

    I really hope the rumours about the M142 HIMARS is true; those things can fire up to 300km which means just about every military target inside Ukraine is in range; including some very expensive radar and anti-aircraft installations in Crimea. Something tells me it would be too good to be true but maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,770 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha



    I think you are overestimating the role of Irish embassies abroad. If an Irish citizen chooses to buy a house in Russia and now cant sell it or get the roubles home then thats on them, not the Irish state. If they lose their passport they will issue an emergency one so they can get back to Dublin to replace it with a new one. If an Irish citizen is imprisoned a third secretary will visit them to make sure they have legal representation but they cannot subvert local laws. Thats pretty much the extent of their role for Irish citizens living abroad.

    Plus there are over 100 countries in the world that do not have an Irish embassy or consulate. Adding one more wouldnt make any difference because if you need assistance for an emergency passport then the Department of Foreign Affairs will tell you to go to the local British embassy. They provide Irish consular services in countries where there is no Irish consulate. Many Irish passports abroad are collected in British embassies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,475 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All seems very 'Lord of War' with Nicolas Cage.

    Send a Helicopter in one container and send the weapons n military components in another container.

    Sure the helicopter is just for rescue purposes and the weapons are for existing units...of course these two would never be combined.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,062 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I would not be opposed at all to NATO forces entering Ukraine in order to push Russian forces out of Ukraine. Not in principle at least. Making it clear that this was a defensive campaign that only went up to the Ukrainian border would be the best bet to prevent it ballooning into something far bigger, but this is in no way a given when taking into consideration how Putin is acting. I wouldn't expect him to go, "Ah yeah, fair enough..." on that.

    But the big problem would be that NATO cannot and should not fight in Ukraine where Russia can fire rockets at them from inside Russia, or artillery when NATO got closer to the border, and NATO can't respond. That stuff would need to be neutralised by someone and that would mean attacking Russia directly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,801 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Rheinmetall have struggled to produce stuff ever since they lost all that cheap labour they had back in the 40s.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,393 ✭✭✭MonkieSocks


    I remember seeing this a few years ago, don't now how they would match up against Russian Migs though

    Takeoff and land from any wide enough street or avenue


    =(:-) Me? I know who I am. I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude (-:)=



This discussion has been closed.
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