Secondary school choices in Dublin South

connorsmith · 11-04-2022 8:29pm #1

Our family is moving to Ireland to live this summer.

In order to find a school that is suitable for my daughter, here are some questions to ask you:

The first is the choice of the school;

After a period of contact with the school, during this time I have found Mount Anville Secondary School, Loreto College Foxrock, St Joseph of Cluny, Rathdown School and Rosemont these schools. I know these are excellent schools, but since we are new to Ireland, we don't know the specific differences between these schools and don't know which one is right for my daughter.

I know the rankings of Irish schools, but since the rankings are only calculated by the university acceptance rate, they can only be used as a reference.

My daughter is very good in the arts and is very interested in science and geography, but she is not very interested in sports. If you know the difference between these schools, please let me know, thank you.

Since we haven't rented a house yet, the location of the school doesn't make any difference.

The second is my daughter's grade,

Since my daughter is currently in Year 9 in a British school, which is equivalent to Year 2 in Ireland, she should enter Year 3 if she is in order, but she can also enter Year 2 according to her age, and some schools recommend her to enter Year 2. Is it better for her to choose the second or third grade?

Thanks fo all.

homer911 · 12-04-2022 8:28am

Rathdown is the only protestant school on your list and has recently announced its going co-ed

sekond · 12-04-2022 8:40am

Third year is an exam year, and your daughter would be coming in two thirds of the way through the curriculum, with some of the classroom based assessment work not done (which is done in 2nd year).

My feeling would be, if at all possible to start her in 2nd year.

sekond · 12-04-2022 8:59am

Also - while, other than Rathdown, all the schools are Catholic schools, there will be differences in their approach to religion, which may or may not be an issue for you (for example, Rosemont has links with Opus Dei).

Cyrus · 12-04-2022 9:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058241266/secondary-school-choices-in-dublin-south

you want to make sure if possible that you are living relatively close to the school, so that your daughter isnt isolated from her friends after school or during holidays.

Rathdown is a great school, there are also another two in the general area you should consider, loreto dalkey and holy child killiney.

spurious · 12-04-2022 9:19am

You can read Inspection reports about the schools on https://www.gov.ie/en/school-reports/?school_roll_number=&report_title=&school_level=Post+Primary&school_level=Primary&school_level=Special+Education&report_date_from_day=&report_date_from_month=&report_date_from_year=&report_date_to_day=&report_date_to_month=&report_date_to_year=

After you read a few reports, you can read between the lines as to what they are criticising/praising.

By far the strongest influence on a child in any school will be the home.

backwards_man · 12-04-2022 9:29am

Keep in mind also that competition for places in these schools is fierce and they might not have availability as they would have taken a full compliment for 1st year. Unless they have already indicated that they would take your daughter into 2nd or 3rd year you might find you have to take what you can get rather than what you want. Also these are all fee paying, in case that is a factor. As a previous poster has said religious ethos prevails in all these schools, mostly catholic, Rathdown is protestant. If co-ed is important, Rathdown is your only choice on that list. All girls schools tend to have hockey as the main sport.

Cyrus · 12-04-2022 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914686#Comment_118914686

Rathdown has announced it will go co - ed it isnt co-ed yet, and i dont think they have announced yet whether the phase in will be at junior level or secondary.

Tabnabs · 12-04-2022 10:02am

I would have real concern about getting into any of these schools as the pressure on places appears to be extreme at the moment. I know of an American family recently arrived with primary aged children that have been rejected by 10 primary schools in this same catchment area due to simply no available spaces. They are now reconsidering their decision for the family to move to Ireland.

Ring each of the schools you have listed and ask them directly.

connorsmith · 12-04-2022 10:15am

Thank you for your replies, neither the religious orientation nor the location of the school is an issue for my family. Whether it is a girls' school or a co-educational school is acceptable to us.

connorsmith · 12-04-2022 10:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914464#Comment_118914464

Thanks for your reply, the religious orientation is not a issue for my family;yes ,the school has told me they are going to be co-ed.

connorsmith · 12-04-2022 10:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914643#Comment_118914643

Thanks , I have found all reports of these schools, most of their scroces are ethier good or very good.Although the contents of the reports are detailed, they are too old to reflect the current state of schools.

connorsmith · 12-04-2022 10:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914731#Comment_118914731

yes，I also ask for a space for my son in primary school, but they have not given any answer for boy.

backwards_man · 12-04-2022 10:27am

Wesley college is a co ed private school in Balinteer, methodist ethos although they take all religions. Wide choice of extra curricular activities, good art and science facilities, alongside a very good selection of sports. As they also take boarders they have a good lunch canteen, menu is on their website. One of mine goes there.

connorsmith · 12-04-2022 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914686#Comment_118914686

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914988#Comment_118914988

thanks for recommendation ,I will look Wesley college. Another problem is that I still wait visa ,so I can not go to school camp to see it.

coylemj · 12-04-2022 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915111#Comment_118915111

You may have a delay in getting an immigrant visa to move permanently to Ireland but surely you can travel on a tourist visa to visit and talk to some of those schools?

connorsmith · 13-04-2022 10:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118915384#Comment_118915384

thanks for notice, that is also a good way.

connorsmith · 13-04-2022 10:13am

I have made a research, I found the art level of Loreto College Foxrock is very good, my daughter may go to this school.Mount Anville Secondary School's sport level is excellent, but my daughter is not a sport fan.

ted1 · 13-04-2022 11:52am

How long do you intend on staying ?

St.Andrew’s offer the IB which may be useful, It’s on the DART line so. Quite accessible

https://www.sac.ie/page/?title=International+Baccalaureate+%28IB%29&pid=151

connorsmith · 13-04-2022 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920521#Comment_118920521

I think at least 5 years, even more. SAC confirmed they do not have space ,whatever my son or my daugther.

Fasano · 13-04-2022 1:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118914924#Comment_118914924

their ethos is Church of Ireland, but I would guess that the majority of girls that go there are Catholic, but in any case, it isn't an overly religious school.

There are a number of boarders there who don't have English as a first language, a number of girls come over from Spain for a few years to more or less become fluent in English. This may be a help.

They also have good sporting facilities, but aren't a big sports school. Taking part is encouraged, but it isn't a driver like many schools in the area. Academically I could not fault them and their art teacher is great, but there is only one.

I'm not sure about geography, but sciences are very strong at Rathdown and the teaching and facilities very good. They are very big in encouraging girls to do STEM subjects and I think on here it was once said that Loretto gives your girls a good education so they an meet a good husband, Rathdown teaches them to be strong independent women.

lastly, off the top of my head, I would say six or seven of last years leavers went to universities either in the UK or Spain, so as far as the "School Tables" go, these girls did not go on to third level education.

Fasano · 13-04-2022 1:50pm

Cyrus · 13-04-2022 5:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921039#Comment_118921039

I think that comparison of the rathdown education v loreto is probably outdated now to be fair :D

But i would be happy to send my daughter to either (loreto dalkey)

Mount anville, not so much.

connorsmith · 13-04-2022 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922105#Comment_118922105

why it is outdated to be fair?

Cyrus · 13-04-2022 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922214#Comment_118922214

sorry an irish expression,

what i meant was i dont think that description of the two schools that the other poster quoted is accurate nowadays.

connorsmith · 13-04-2022 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118921039#Comment_118921039

In this way, although RATHDOWN's ranking is not very high, it is also a very good school, just because there are many international students, and these international students go to other countries to go to university.

IGraRunning · 13-04-2022 6:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922269#Comment_118922269

You're correct. There are a lot of international (and Irish) students that do not go to Irish university so would not register on the 'league tables'. The same would be said of St. Andrews.

I think the questions should be what are you looking for in a school, and which one of those schools matches most closely your requirements?

For example you say that religion isn't an issue, but would it become an issue if there's a very heavy religious ethos. Rosemont for example is Opus Dei - extremely religious and it's part of their very foundation so you can't really get away from it.

Ethos wise, is it purely academic focused that you want, or is it a more holistic approach? (it doesn't have to be one or the other, some will cater well for both).

Size wise, what kind of school is your daughter coming from? Would she feel suffocated in a smaller school like Rathdown, compared to feeling lost in a bigger school like Loretto Dalkey?

Do you want a homely/community feel from the school, or more institutional/structured feel?

What subject does your daughter want to study? Are these available within the set timetable (for example applied maths may only be available as an extra curricular activity). Which languages will she want to speak?

Costs are to be considered also. St Joseph's of Cluny and Loretto Dalkey will come in much cheaper than Rathdown or even Mount Anville. Additional costs should be inquired about. Will you want to pay for hot lunches, or after school study - are either of these two things even available in all schools?

Rathdown will be taking boys into their secondary school from next year, and into their primary school from this year. I think someone mentioned above that it was in the plans but undecided yet.

There is also a new International School in Sandyford (Nord Anglia)which don't do the leaving cert at all, only IB which may suit better if you're not planning university here. It has no government funding however, so it is quite a bit more expensive.

There are lots of differences between the schools you have listed, but starting with what you want a school to give you and working from there would help people answer specifics.

Best of luck with the move.

connorsmith · 13-04-2022 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922376#Comment_118922376

Thank you for your detailed analysis.

I'm not worried about the fees, compared to the current school, the fees in Ireland are affordable. Our family has moved several times over the past few years due to work and my daughter has been attending an English-based international school, except for a year of the French school. My daughter has studied English, Chinese, French, German, and Greek. But this time, since my daughter is already in junior high school, I hope to be able to find a school keeping study until she goes to college.

As I mentioned earlier my daughter is very interested in art and design and also gets good reviews from art teachers in her current school. Judging from her subject grades, her liberal arts are better than science, and the worst in sports. . .She also She is interested in science because she finds scientific experiments very interesting. Regarding geography， I think her experience in these few years helps.

For religion, I think it's acceptable to learn a little bit, but not if it's mandatory.

The size of the school is not a problem. She has been to both large schools and small schools and did not feel uncomfortable. She studies very self-discipline. In fact, her current grades are Attainment 3.4/4 and Attainment 3.9/4. Her current school is the best British school in Paris. But it is impossible to compare British schools in France with Irish schools.

It's hard to say about future university goals, and of course, I hope it's not just limited to Irish universities.

I know that the schools I mentioned have different characteristics, but unfortunately, it is difficult for me as a newcomer to know the specific differences, because it is difficult to see the substantial difference from the school's public information. That's why I'm here to consult you guys, thank you very much for your comments.

connorsmith · 16-04-2022 8:35pm

Hi, do you know what difference is between School's rate of progression to 3rd level and School's rate of progression to university?

16-04-2022 8:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936714#Comment_118936714

I know what I mean by the difference, but that might not answer your question. It depends on what source you're using and how it defines "progression to 3rd level" vs "progression to university".

Irish second-level students have a number of progression pathways from school. Many go on to university. Many others go on to institutes of technology - though they have almost all now been merged into what are called technological universities. Some go on to third-level colleges that are university level but specialised (e.g National College of Art and Design, Royal Irish Academy of Music). A significant number go to further education colleges rather than higher education colleges. These generally offer programmes that are ranked lower on the Irish and European Qualifications Frameworks than university-level courses would be. Different reporting sources use different definitions, so one source might describe a further education pathway as "3rd level", but another source might not.

16-04-2022 9:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118922570#Comment_118922570

For religion, I think it's acceptable to learn a little bit, but not if it's mandatory.

In almost every post-primary school in Ireland, religion is in effect mandatory. There are opt-outs available, but in my view (and the view of many others) they are not genuine opt-outs. Having said that, in a great many schools it seems to go over the heads of the teenagers, especially if they come from a primary school or home background where religion isn't all that important. For example, I spent some time a couple of days ago in the company of several people in their 20s who all went to Catholic schools - all of whom were saying how they recently filled in the "no religion" box on the Census of Population form.

I know that the schools I mentioned have different characteristics, but unfortunately, it is difficult for me as a newcomer to know the specific differences, because it is difficult to see the substantial difference from the school's public information. That's why I'm here to consult you guys, thank you very much for your comments.

Other people might disagree with what I'm going to say here, but perhaps not, and I'd be interested in the opinions of a poster like @spurious who has experience of the system - I spent a sizeable part of my career working in the education and higher education sectors, but I wouldn't claim to be an expert. But here goes anyway.

Up to a point, it doesn't really matter how the school you choose is "ranked", because in most cases the rankings are a bit dubious and easily manipulated depending on the methodology used by the people doing the ranking. If I were you, I'd be doing enough research to broadly rule in a whole bunch of schools that look good and maybe rule out some others if they have specific characteristics you don't like. Then, I'd ask myself the following questions:

Where is the school, and is it in easy reach of where we're going to live?
Is there a good primary school in the same area? (since you want one of those as well)
Is the school co-ed? (that way, you can deal with one school for your daughter and later for your son if needed and minimise hassle for yourself)
Is the school going to have availability when I need it? (and because of recent changes to the law, the school might not know that)

Even in an area the size of Dublin's southside, don't be surprised if those questions narrow your options down quite a bit. But for me, the most crucial factor is where you're going to be living. You want to be near enough to your school of choice so that your daughter has an easy trip there and home, and so that she is in the same catchment area or zone as her classmates. For people in her age group, easy access to friends is likely to be a big deal. I know that for some of the big name schools on the southside, kids travel from all over the place, but that's not the case everywhere

I'd mention some specific schools, but to be honest I might just be sending you astray because of the importance of where you'll be living.

spurious · 17-04-2022 1:25am

Certainly in South County Dublin, you are not going to run into many 'bad' schools. The involvement of parents and the home attitude to education is what in my experience makes the difference.

I taught in schools that people who bother to ask where to send their children would not have sent their child in a million years, but still we had some extremely high achieving students and recipients of the All Ireland Scholarships and the like. The difference between those children and the others in their class? The home. People may not believe it, but there are schools where in the entirety of a child's second level career, nobody EVER shows up for parent teacher meetings, shows, sports etc..

I note that the OP's daughter has an interest in Art. Often there are schools where due to an individual Art teacher many children get into Art colleges. That might merit a bit more research.

If it was my child, I would be looking at things like the school's anti-bullying policy and how they deal with bullying. If they say it is not a problem in their school, scratch them off your list. After that, check the languages they offer, subject choices etc., in particular the Art provisions since she has a leaning in that direction.

Personally I prefer schools that allow and encourage a broad range of abilities to enrol, just because I think it is good for children to realise not everybody is like them in terms of opportunities and abilities, but that's by the by really.

I agree with all of Ulysses 1874's post. Living close to a network of friends is very important, so look for location of school in terms of where you might be living, proximity to a primary school (or maybe one connected with the secondary) and available places.

**edit Since 3rd year is an exam year, most schools like a child to be with them for two years to prepare and also to give the child a chance to settle in before State exams.

AndrewJRenko · 17-04-2022 1:31am

Do you know where you're going to be living? You should really be thinking about a school within walking or cycling distance to avoid adding yet another school commute to Dublin's already crazy traffic levels.

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 10:12am

thanks your kind guys, I would like to make a decision of school first, then rent a house accrding the loaction of the school. Right now I do not have a Irish address cause I have not arrived in Ireland. Good thing is that these schools do not refuse me as I do not have a Irish address.

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118936797#Comment_118936797

I think I get what you mean, U is a higher part of 3 .Thanks.

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 10:18am

Only thing I know my workplace is Sandyford.

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937556#Comment_118937556

thanks for your reply, do you know what schools in the South are good at ART?

If they say bullying is not a problem in their school, scratch them off your list.

why do schools say it is not a problem in their school, scratch them off my list?

Do you mean all schools have bullying, if they say no bullying, all is a lie?

My daughter has been in 5 schools since primary school in different countries, lucky for her, never gets any trouble in bullying, all her classmates were good with her and she is a quiet polite girl, never made the trouble for anyone.

Instead, my son sometimes fights in school.

I think indeed there is a big difference between the girls and the boys.

spurious · 17-04-2022 10:40am

Yes, all schools have bullying (as do all workplaces to an extent). The difference is how they handle it. If they say they have no bullying they are not watching.

Some schools appear to be always dealing with bullying incidents, but in my opinion that is good as it shows they are stamping it out whenever it happens. A culture of reporting it develops among the students and gradually it lessens, but it does not go away and can easily re-emerge if a close eye is not kept.

Bullying among girls can be almost invisible, excluding from groups, 'the silent treatment' etc., all the more reason for a school with a close eye on things.

I really don't know about the schools and Art. Perhaps check the college entries for the past few years for high numbers to NCAD or IADT. Or ask to speak to the Art teacher - they will be very quick to tell you how many students got into Art college. Of course an element of talent is involved but a good Art teacher will give good guidance in terms of portfolio preparation and techniques.

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 10:46am

but I can not find Loreto College Foxrock's leaving certificates results, I found St Joseph of Cluny and Mount Anville s leaving certificates results are very good, a little of their students even can get full score, Rathdown 's leaving certificates results is lower than these two.

Leaving Certificate Results Mount Anville 2019

This success was evident in all subject areas where participation rates at Higher Level were at 100% in 15 of the 19 subjects taken in Mount Anville.

The average points score nationwide was 335 points. In Mount Anville the average score was 510 points.

Three students achieved the perfect score of 625 points.

12 % scored 600-625 points

24% scored 550-600 points

30% scored 500-550

9% scored 450 – 500 points

14% scored 400-450 points

8% scored 350 – 400 points

3% scored 300 – 350 points

80% of the students sat Higher Level Maths – compared to a national average of 33% in all schools or 41% in Girls’ single sex schools. All candidates were successful.

Leaving Certificate Results St Joseph of Cluny 2021

Congratulations to Emma Nolan achieving 625 points and 7 H1s in her Leaving Certificate results today. We would also like to congratulate Sinead Kelly and Kate Regan for achieving 625 points.

We are delighted to show the breakdown percentages of results from this years Leaving Certificate which are as follows:

22.45% achieved over 600points
46.94% achieved between 500-600points
20.41% achieved between 400-500 points
4.08% achieved between 300-400 points

Leaving Certificate 2020 St Joseph of Cluny

Success

Congratulations to our three students who each received 625 points.

Cara who will study Law and Political Science in Trinity College, Alison who will study Commerce in UCD and Louise who will study Law with Social Justice in UCD. Congratulations Leaving Certificate students of 2020

14.2% over 600 points

42.5 % over 500 points

Leaving Certificate Results Rathdown 2021

 1 in 4 achieved over 600 points

 Almost half scored over 550 points

 Two thirds scored over 500 points

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 10:46am

I am very surprised that so many students can get full marks. They did very good.

AndrewJRenko · 17-04-2022 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937973#Comment_118937973

You probably mean 'Sandyford', which is on the outskirts of south Dublin. The Luas tram line goes right through Sandyford, very close to many of the major employers there, so you might want to look for a school that is close to the Luas also. Wesley College is within walking distance of the Luas, Alexandra College is right beside a Luas stop.

If you mean Sandford Road, not Sandyford, there would be some different options.

spurious · 17-04-2022 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938063#Comment_118938063

If you don't enrol children with learning difficulties it becomes less surprising. I think it might be more useful for you to look at the breakdown of where the students went, looking for NCAD and IADT. I think it is the Irish Times that publishes them annually.

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938116#Comment_118938116

Yes, there are schools in France that do this too, and even dissuade some students who can not get the high test scores.

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938104#Comment_118938104

sorry,I made a mistake. It is sandyford.

ted1 · 17-04-2022 1:11pm

If you are in Sandyford you could consider the international school.

https://www.nordangliaeducation.com/schools/dublin/international

Sunrise_Sunset · 17-04-2022 1:46pm

I'm jumping in on this, also interested in South Dublin secondary schools. Would any posters have any input on St. Gerard's in Bray (outskirts of South Dublin)?

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938723#Comment_118938723

until now, not found, do you live in Bray?

Sunrise_Sunset · 17-04-2022 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938741#Comment_118938741

I don't, I live a few kilometres away, further south into Co. Wicklow, about 11km from Bray. Sorry for hijacking your post, but some posters had good input on other schools, and was hoping they might have some information on this school too. The other South Dublin schools mentions would be a bit too far for us to travel to.

connorsmith · 17-04-2022 3:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938759#Comment_118938759

it is okay, I am happy to discuss with you here. I applied St. Gerard too as I have boy and girl, but it seem no space. In the new age, mixed school is more popular to the parent as all mixed schools said no space.

17-04-2022 11:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938148#Comment_118938148

If you'll be working in Sandyford that probably opens up a lot of the southside of Dublin in terms of options for where to live (and consequently where to send kids to school).

Subject to availability (and budget) you could live in any number of places along the Luas green line (tram line), which is a great means for commuting in and out of Sandyford. There are lots of other places you could live on the southside, but living near the green line would let you commute quickly and avoiding Dublin traffic, which is often a nightmare. If you can get the Luas to work and your kids are within walking distance of school it'll make a big contribution to your quality of life in Dublin, IMO.

St Raphaela's (Catholic girls secondary) is not far from Sandyford or from its Luas stops - there's a non-faith mixed primary school near there as well (Goatstown-Stillorgan Educate Together). St Benildus (Catholic boys secondary) is near Kilmacud Luas stop, as is St Olaf's mixed primary school.

Alexandra College (Church of Ireland girls secondary) is near Milltown Luas stop. Sandford Park school (private non-denominational mixed secondary) is near to Beechwood and Ranelagh Luas stops, and there are some mixed primary schools around including Ranelagh Multi-denominational school. Muckross Park (girls Catholic secondary) is nearby on Marlborough Road.

Just some thoughts on places where you might be able to combine finding a nice place to live, the kind of schools you might be looking for, and the right kind of commute to work. Best of luck with your search. Sorry about the references to faith in my list, but faith and school ownership are quite mixed up together in Ireland.

17-04-2022 11:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118937960#Comment_118937960

But be careful of one thing. I don't know how your source is treating the National College of Art and Design or the Institute of Art and Design Technology. But the schools that are good at sending kids through to those colleges are probably the ones who could best bring on your daughter's art interests. That's where the advice from @spurious about schools and individual Art teachers could be very useful to you.

Secondary school choices in Dublin South

Comments

Leaving Certificate Results St Joseph of Cluny 2021

Leaving Certificate 2020 St Joseph of Cluny