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Sedating calves to dehorn them

  • 13-04-2022 9:34pm
    #1
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Just saw someone on Twitter saying how great this was and they’d never go back to regular dehorning.

    So, anyone on here get the vet to sedate and then dehorn calves?

    Sounds easier on man and beast but are there any downsides? Is it much more expensive for example? Or do they need to a certain age or weight?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭trg


    €10 each I think so it costs alright but sure your paying for the labour as well. As long as buds are there they can be done.

    We've done it 2 years now, great job. So much easier on the beast and, importantly, the man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    You have to get the Vet to administer. If you inject yourself with chanazol it’s curtains



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Thanks for that. It’s a bit expensive alright compared to €2-3 for regular dehorning.

    They just wake up after an hour or two, is it?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Yeah, I was assuming it was a vet job. Wouldn’t dream of trying it myself

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭ginger22


    whats wrong with using polled bulls



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  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭James2022


    It only takes a few mins to do a calf that's a few days old, any decent calf crate holds them in place. Why would you need to sedate them?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Re polled: I buy calves at the mart so don’t have an option to breed my own polled ones

    Re sedation: I just saw someone saying how great it was on Twitter so asked here if anyone had experience of it

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭einn32


    Did it one year. Definitely easier but over kill really for what you are doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭Dunedin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 675 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    Isn't sedation overkill? What age & type of calves?

    Did a few today myself. All LMx sucklers range 1 week to 4 weeks. Any of the young 1-2 weeks old calves you'd struggle to find the bud so no point. 3-4 week calves no issue. All to do with setup, Condon crate & Gas buddex, done in a few seconds, leaving bud in, with very little stress or strain on the calves. All running around field this evening tails up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    I find the local anaesthetic of adrenocane a great job. No need for sedation and that’s beef limoX cattle



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Did you buy some recently? Can't get it here in Clare/Limerick area.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭JustJoe7240


    Any chance they mistook sedation and local anesthetic is a great job, Sedation would be complete overkill



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭kollegeknight


    its actually Alfacaine 2% and adrenaline I got it. The label is in German or Dutch.

    perscribed by my local vet in West Clare. I can PM you their details if you like



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,232 ✭✭✭orm0nd


    Would that person be a vet by any chance?

    Didn't pay much need to the thread but I know some of the comments were from a vet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Cheers, I'll ask about it, the next time I'm in.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Did it last year, calves had a scour so let them recover fully before dehorning so were strong. Vet in sedates and gives local and go around dehorning then. Super job and done in no time. Would have been all day using the crate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Base price




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Yes, had a share of early bull calves last year regular buyer had them taken early on



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    I dehorned calves for a neighbour during the week. They were way too strong, to be honest, but he had just bought them a few days earlier. He gets them from the same guy every year and they do well for him. I had to take the top off the bud first before I could get down to the root to remove the bud completely. I did younger calves for him too but they were no bother in comparison. It should be compulsory to dehorn them before a certian age.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Good loser


    Bought 10 Her calves there a few weeks ago. 4 were polled. Pleasant surprise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    I've also noticed that some of the HEx calves that we bought in the last few years are polled. I kept on two heifers (a rwh and a bwh) to run with the bull this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭White Clover


    Have had a few here for fattening over the last number of years. Do you find them lighter in the bone? Vet here says it's connected to being polled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    One of them is light boned but I put it down to the fact she is out of a FRx cow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭James2022



    It's a hard thing to manage and a scheme would be tricky to implement but I do think there should be way more emphasis on dehorning at a young age when its no trouble for the animal. If not for safety then for animal welfare, skulling is a barbaric practice that should not exist in Ireland. Farmers willingly letting animals grow horns to skull them when they are much older should really be phased out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭johnnyw20


    Dehorning calves is the most over complicated process on any farm.


    Just pen up your Calves tightly in a pen. Catch them and inject a couple of mils of adrenacaine into each side of the calf. Once your finished injecting them, start with the first calf and put into the crate and have the dehorner good and got and you’d get 20/30 calves easily done in an hour. Simple as that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭Gillespy


    It's one job you'd find any excuse not to start and then wonder what the fuss was about when you get into it.

    I've been noticing a number of 10th Generation Dairyfarmer's heifers on youtube have horns or little butts of things that might grow into their heads in time. He was using paste just holding them between his legs. Have to complete the job fully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭Dunedin


    we’d have had the odd one here over the years been done around a year old with the vet and krange and it was a job I hated. After the last one about ten years ago I said never again will that happen. It’s truly barbaric on man and beast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    Try catching a month old limousin suckler. I've had them literally run up a wall. I mean literally with the calves 4 legs on the wall. 😀 last time doing the neighbours and a calf bolted and jumped from the crate knocking the crate and himself as he did. Neighbour who is young enough wanted to leave them till they were yearlings. He said it wasn't worth the hassle. I wasn't long correcting him.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭Dunedin


    Therein lies the problem. Should not be left a month. I’ve done limos as young as 2 days old.



  • Registered Users Posts: 970 ✭✭✭sonnybill


    Legally any calf over 14 days to be dehorned should be given a local .

    I know it’s silly As some calves have great butts at 10 days and others need 6-7 weeks to grow same volume of horn tissue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    It has to be carried unddr 2 months old, before the buds attach to the bone making it more difficult to remove them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    That's what I've seen too. No bother flick out the bud when they are under 4 weeks. After that it's pure torture on man and beast. Lads insist then on taking out the bud and you're gouging away like mad.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,148 ✭✭✭893bet


    And if the calf doesn’t have horns till three weeks? Or is calved at an out farm? Or was sick the first few weeks and weak so dehorning was out off?


    A lot of people see everything very black and white. It’s easy miss one. I am more careful these days to write down who is done and who isn’t. Have one left to do. 4 weeks old and a very stuffy fucker. Not looking forward to him. But the shot of local really is a great job.


    Missed one two years ago. Left her for the vet during herd test then and he butchered her I thought. Cut into her skull almost. And she still grew back stubs after.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 807 ✭✭✭CreadanLady


    I wonder if there is some labour saving device available that gives one shot into the head and scoops out the buds, like some kind of cone punch or something. Maybe battery powered or cartridge powered. Woudl save time and all the fluting around with knives and blow torches and the like.

    The MFV Creadan Lady is a mussel dredger from Dunmore East.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 967 ✭✭✭Count Mondego


    I think that you have to get the bud out. I've always done it and never have a trace of a horn on the animal when they're older. I also buy plenty weanlings every year and a few will have been badly done, no doubt from one of these 'just burn around the horn' merchants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    Torch necessary to cauterise the wound & stop the bleeding.

    Interesting one, a week after disbudding, a startled calf bashed his head as he rushed out of a hut, opening the wound. Couldn't stop the bleeding from the artery. Vet injected local a anaesthetic to stop the bleeding from the artery before bandaging him up. (I think the injection was done again given over the occipital nerve)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,148 ✭✭✭893bet


    i am one of those merchants and never have any regrowth. There is no need to take the bud out from why I see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    What kind of Torch? I just go around the hole internally one last time with the dehorner after I have the bud out, to ensure it is well cauterised.

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭Dunedin


    I’m only talking from my own experience. I’ve being doing calves as young as 2 days all my life. Buds will be small and sometimes hard to get but they will always be there. And if not there at a week old or two old, I’ve never saw them grow afterwards.

    sick calf can be got once a few days better - out farm different job alright



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,148 ✭✭✭893bet


    Did our last calf yesterday. Coming on 4 weeks and a stuffy LM fucker from one of our wilder cows. Not fun. Horn bud were tiny. Just about confident they were even there. Couldn’t face leaving him another two weeks to see if they would develop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    You referred to "blow torch" - I took that to be the gas dehorner



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