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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭thomil


    Wait, what? I have serious doubts about that, to be honest. Troops sure, but I can't fathom where they would have the deck space to carry more than a handful of vehicles of any type without impeding the operational capability of the ship. If you look at this image, you'll see that every free bit of deck space is utilised for one weapons system or another, from the helicopter flight deck right aft to the twin 130mm gun at the bow.


    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    It's crazy to think that many of us were watching the Kyiv cam in the early days watching and listening as Ukrainian troops battled Russian squads who had been embedded into the city prior to the invasion, thinking that it was only a matter of days a before zelensky may be dead or the city in Russian control.

    Since the moment Zelensky was offered a quick route out, and he replied by saying 'I need weapons, not a ride ' the Ukrainians have put on a masterclass on how to use your strengths against an enemies weakness.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭Longing




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain




  • Posts: 9,117 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Any update on the Z-Kildare mechanic since? Has he changed his evil ways and joined the local Tidy Towns community? is he sucking diesel or sucking something else?



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I'm not so sure about the motivation or not of the average Russian soldier Swi, or at least I'd not be so sure of the lack of it. As you note Ukraine is indeed giving a masterclass of narative control and they have the majority of the facts to back them up, which really helps, but because of that narrative control and what we want to believe it's easy to fall into the trap of believing it all. When we see Russian people and sympathisers living in Ireland, most one assumes for many years, with access to more media opinions than their fellow countrymen can dream off, driving down our roads in convoy waving the Russian flag with Zed's included seemingly convinced of the "right" of their side, I'm not so sure at all that we can make such easy assumptions. We may hope, but...

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭thomil


    Not on a ship like that, it isn't. The entire battery of anti-aircraft missiles is housed in vertical launch systems that go down several decks and take up quite a lot of space in the hull, the different radars require significant space for signal processing equipment etc, there are magazines for the guns, the two quintuple torpedo launchers as well as for the helicopter and so on. Granted, there is a precedent for using cruisers and the like as landing ships, the Germans did it when they invaded Norway, and had their most modern cruiser, "Blücher", blown up by Oscarsborg fortress in the process. However, in such cases, the cruisers only transported the soldiers whilst the heavy equipment was brought in by dedicated transports.

    I also think you slightly misread the ITV article. Whoever wrote that article must have done so under the influence, but the ship they're referring to as being able to carry "20 tanks, 45 armoured vehicles and 400 troops" is the landing transport Orsk, which was sunk in Berdyansk harbour back in March.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I think you're mistaken it's a cruiser ship geared towards command roles not a landing or amphibious assault vessel,

    Can't see where your getting the idea it was carrying vehicles of any kind,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Has it been documented they are not interested any more and have stopped (honest question)?

    If they're still "messaging" the West (esp. Europe) it would be different I imagine, less directly focussed on the war itself (no point in that).

    Demoralisation and division re the sanctions/economic pain, refugee flows etc., boosting their creatures and friends who might be in with a shout at getting elected somewhere (e.g. Le Pen) and as always focussing on what's appealing to + will rile up the "independent thinker" types at political extremes they have cultivated for years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Moskva sunk.jpg

    If it sank at or near it's last position, which I have marked with a red x, then the water there is only 35-40m deep, so if it did have nukes onboard, they are going to want to get them off pronto as that's divable with just scuba, even I have been to 38m in my youth. In years to come it's going to possibly be a tourist attraction, war grave or not. Oh, that's right, it's not a war, it's a special operation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    There is an air of unreality to it, because it's got so many good twists, turns, surprises and outrageous horror, drama and tension, it's like an extremely well written book.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    My German Navy friends view on the ship for any who is interested, great moral victory for sure but more ships still capable of causing damage is my reading of it. Still a great day for Ukraine though

    " I think it's going to be quite expensive to replace that old soviet junk. Especially becaus €500,000,000 currently are worth 450,737,099,685,816. Rubles.

    Well, I saw this unit once off Cyprus, at sea. Impressive! Unfortunately, albeit a weapon-wielding colossus that caused much misery in port cities like Odessa, due to the sheer masses of Russian ships yet to be sunk in the Black Sea, it is primarily a impressive, moral success for the Ukrainians"



  • Posts: 5,082 [Deleted User]


    Look for the where isobars are crammed together, this is more obvious being an animation


    FYI the storm moved out of the area, it was rough enough, a bouy recorded 38knt gusts and peak swell of 3m at the time of the incident. Bear in mind the bouy is located in the central black sea and the ship was to the NE. So ballpark. Oh and the water temp is about 7-8c


    Basically not great conditions for a search and rescue or for towing a damaged ship.


    Also note this weather nerd website. https://www.wunderground.com/wundermap

    I used it as a proxy for whether a town had power and internet during the initial stages of the invasion. Was great to see Russia was never able to cut off power and comms in a widespread manner. (All the weather stations are live feeds).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,614 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    He was going to go into battleship repair but that's now gone south! Hopefully the f****r is drawing the dole in Clane at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,109 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    I would bet that Putin is in a furious rage at the loss of the Moskva and has ordered a massive retaliatory air raid on Ukraine. I wonder will we see footage of downed Russian planes in the next day or two as a result.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Can anyone explain to me why the US were helping the orcs with the 'shes afloat and under her own steam and has safely reached port' BS narrative? The US were claiming their intelligence showed damage but that it was afloat and steaming back to port one minute, and Moscow was admitting it had sunk in a storm minutes later.

    I don't think for a minute US intelligence was lacking, so why the very big lie?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,742 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭wassie


    It 'gusted' that hard in my backyard last week and the trampoline didnt fly away.

    That kind of talk only gives credence to the russian BS (to be clear Im not accusing you of such, just passing comment).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    I hope he’s in a rage. I hope he’s in so much of a rage that his blood pressure rises, causing a massive stroke, leaving him confined to a wheelchair, drooling and slobbering all over himself while he decays in his own faeces for the remainder of his useless fuckin life.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,327 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    That US intelligence had her on the way to port heavily damaged if afloat(did they not say being towed?) and assumed she would get to port and soon after she sank before they were up to speed on that? Hardly a "very big lie".

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 713 ✭✭✭cheezums


    Incredible that a few weeks after the snake island incident, those Ukrainian soldiers are alive and that warship is at the bottom of the ocean. "Go fxck yourself Russian warship" indeed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I don't think it's a secret that the US have 123+ military and spy satellites, Global Hawks, E-3 sentry's and many other sources.



  • Posts: 5,082 [Deleted User]


    I scuba dive and it is enough to create white caps. I never dive when its like that. Add that on top of an already messy sea.. Just imagine being in those conditions in the dark in water as cold as a fridge. You can literally drown at the surface



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    The US have informants on the inside. It's possible they were fed bad info and it abounds within the Russian forces. As I mentioned the more obvious reason the Russians would lie about the sinking is to avoid their other sailors getting that sinking feeling themselves.


    Edit: They will no doubt be looking for more reliable sources going forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ronivek


    Where did they lie? Both narratives can be 100% true.

    They said the ship appeared to have suffered a large explosion, hadn't sunk but appeared to still be on fire, and appeared to be getting towed back towards Sevastopol.

    Russia stated it sank while being towed back to port.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Well someone earlier mentioned that Turkish and Romanian rescue ships had reported it sinking, so I gave credit to that idea which would have meant it was never under tow and never really moved far from where it was hit.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,153 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "Russia has fired on and detained a Turkish-managed general cargoship it claims was attempting a rescue mission to the devastated Ukrainian city of Mariupol.

    The official representative of the Russian Defence Ministry, Major General Igor Konashenkov, told reporters the 5,200-dwt Apache (built 1991) diverted from a convoy of ships in the Sea of Azov on 8 April.

    He said this was an attempt by the Ukrainian government to evacuate Ukrainian leaders by sea from the port.

    “The Kyiv regime keeps trying to evacuate the leaders of the nationalist Azov regiment and foreign mercenaries from Mariupol,” the general added.

    This is after earlier bids to airlift personnel by helicopters failed, he claimed." https://www.tradewindsnews.com/casualties/russia-fires-on-turkish-cargo-ship-on-rescue-mission-to-mariupol/2-1-1200502

    Interesting this wasn't reported more widely.



This discussion has been closed.
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