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Dark side of the ring

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,551 ✭✭✭✭briany


    That some people have more sway in an organisation than others is more a fact of life than a scandal of any kind. If Undertaker had serially abused his power at WWE, we'd have heard all about it by now, because there are plenty of ex-workers there who'd have no ties to the company, no chance of coming back and therefore feel no impediment to 'spilling the tea' on him, but stories appear isolated.

    Maybe the biggest criticisms of the Undertaker, and not even criticisms, but stories which could be given a more damning spin are about him giving new members of the roster a hard time, especially younger guys, but I think this is more borne out of an old school wrestling mentality of being taught to respect the business and the people you're working with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,380 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    I don't think it was the political power that Undertaker had that made people respect him. Some people just have that aura about them that garners respect, either because they are natural born leaders, or because they're well liked in the locker room. The fact that very few if any wrestlers ever have a bad word to say about Undertaker is probably a testament to his popularity in the locker room.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    I actually can't comprehend what I just watched.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,443 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,816 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    I see the Flair Carshield ads have been replaced by the Ice T ads on RoH this week



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Luna was another tragic story and after watching it I think there is a story there about Sherri as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,551 ✭✭✭✭briany


    At least he still has the KFC Honey Mustard ads on Southpaw. I suppose that's a regional promotion, so no-one really cares too much.... Woooo, tangy! Wooooo, crispy!


    I think this past Luna episode probably touched on most of the bases that a Sherri one would. Couple of ex husbands, trained by Moolah, had to face sexual harassment, got stuck as a valet, died in late 40s of drug overdose. There's a good deal of overlap. I think her story is absolutely worth telling, but I think it would be more deserving of a one-off Vice special or one of those A&E bios.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60,315 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    XPW that was some train wreck and real garbage and makes Nick Gage look like a saint.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Cherry_Cola


    They're back too! Event on November 7th!



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,814 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Really enjoying part 2 of the season

    What else can they do for the next season ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,173 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Hmmmm. They've done so much. I actually spent a few minutes typing this only to realise something was already done but all I can think of now is:

    They could do how Vince destroyed the territories promising Vince Snr he wouldn't. Mike Awesome suicide. Arn Anderson and Sid stabbing. Test death. They'll definitely do that whole Speak Out movement at some point too. Not a whole lot left for seasons of stuff tho.



  • Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭AdrianG08


    They could do one on certain guys getting caught on that dodgy doctors list of steroid users (Orton was one I believe) and tie it in with the sheer raft of guys who died young owing to their lifestyles.

    Mention wellness policy that kind of thing.

    This is wrestling there has to be serious untapped dark stories to tell though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,530 ✭✭✭savemejebus


    A Perry Saturn story would be compelling. They could do one about Raven that would be very interesting and follow it up with one on the abuse of the Independent Contractor situation, one about the lack of unions and one about the lack of healthcare except for the "elite" and the deaths etc associated with that. Half a season right there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,443 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Well I think the steroid trail episode was good and kind of balanced but didn’t paint the US attorneys in a great light. I’ve read up about it prior to this episode and even with no legal background at all, I never understood why they tried him in New York when the doctor was a commission doctor for the state of Pennsylvania. I made them sound like idiots and amateurs when they aren’t meant to be. Also, I can now see why the WWE have mcdevitt as their head legal counsel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,551 ✭✭✭✭briany


    That XPW episode - that's got to be as sleazy as wrestling gets, right? Did the federation also at least have some good actual matches, like ECW, in between the violent botch-fests? The whole thing just looked a mess. To me, those kind of big-spot deathmatches have no real place in wrestling, because they have nothing to do with wrestling. It's all about who can do the craziest, riskiest stunt. Why not just get rid of the ring and have it be like Jackass crossed with a three ring circus, but instead of actual trained performers it's young guys who'll do virtually anything for an audience's approval.

    "Come see Supreme, the Supremely Stupid who, tonight, will dive through a stack of 11 flaming folding tables into a pit of barbed wire, encircled by a pack of hungry rottweilers. He will risk his life for almost no money but all the hardcore porn he can handle!"

    Funny to think that New Jack was actually partly paid with hardcore porn. Also, RIP and everything, but the guy was an arsehole. He's never shown a bit of remorse for any time he's nearly killed a guy in the ring.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Onto the Steroid Trials. I saw it as another case of wanting to take someone down rather than wanting to see justice done. I think that if there was any weight to the prosecution's claim, they could have found someone to speak against McMahon, but the only one they found was Nailz, for god sake, whose testimony had no credibility for reasons outlined in the documentary. Thought the right verdict was made. OK, I'm a bit biased, here, I have to admit. The verdict sickened that columnist Phil Mushnick, who is decidedly not a friend of pro-wrestling and had written much that demonised and belittled it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,814 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    I wonder will the Hulk Hogan sex tape/racist remarks get an episode

    An episode on the some the young guys who died tragically (Test, shaun o hare, crash Holly etc)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,173 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    @briany

    I have yet to see the steroid trial episode but it is interesting you say only Nailz. Everyone wants a legends deal huh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,551 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Nails was a mentally-unstable man, it appears to me, with a very clear vendetta against Vince McMahon. The cross-examining counsel asked Wacholz (Nailz) if he held any animosity toward McMahon. Wacholz answered, 'no'. Counsel said to judge that Wacholz didn't know the meaning of the word 'animosity' and rephrased it - 'do you hate Vince McMahon?'. Wacholz answered, 'Yes.' Defence was therefore able to question the credibility of Wacholz's testimony as being from a hostile witness (i.e. someone with a grudge). There was also serious credibility issues with Wacholz's claim that McMahon ordered him to use steroids, the defence counsel asking why this would have happened when Nailz performed in a prison jumpsuit that totally concealed any muscles he might have.

    As for other wrestlers not testifying that McMahon supplied them with steroids, well, McMahon may be crazy, but he's not that dumb. That's why he had bent doctors like George Zahorian working for him in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,551 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Hogan v. Gawker could be an interesting episode, but you'd never get anyone significantly involved to talk about it because Hogan has rehabilitated himself at least to the point that WWE will wheel him out once every so often, and almost certainly would not want to revisit a sex tape he made and racial slurs he uttered. Maybe Linda Hogan would appear, but she's absolutely insufferable.

    As to young wrestlers dying, there are so many of them that you could easily do a whole season of stories just on that topic alone. Doing one episode on many would afford only a very shallow look at each circumstance and make it all seem a bit glib. The overarching theme of painkiller/soma abuse, physical trauma and mental well-being is something that has been examined from various different standpoints throughout the show's run.



  • Registered Users Posts: 37,814 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    I wonder could Bill Demott get an episode esp with the crazy stories of him when he was in charge of development



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  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭fman


    Season 3 ( well 7 episodes, not sure if that's 3a) added to All4 today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,173 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    I finally got around to watching the Dynamite Kid episode. Really good. He was some bollocks tho.

    Gave it all for nothing in the end. No money, no family, poor health, nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭jo187


    I remember reading about XPW in the magazines back in the day. Even as a kid could tell just a ECW knock off. Years later got my hands on one of there shows. It was Shane Douglas defending the title against some body. The whole thing was bloody awful. The camera work was terrible, don't know if it was one of the lads that shot the porno for them, might explain it.

    For some reason I bought the XPW Cold day in hell reunion show. This was when ECW ECW was doing all of there reunion shows so of course XPW copied them one last time.

    I say one of the worst wrestling shows I have ever seen.

    The documentary did a good job making the lads seem bigger then what they were. It's a shame they could not get Rob Black or Lizzy in for interviews do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,551 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I understand that Rob Black is living somewhere in New York state, now, and is the proprietor of a fast food restaurant. Assuming that he's also going under his real name of Rob Zicari once again. Probably would have said something incriminating if he had been on. Doesn't strike me as the type who could stop himself.

    Speaking of saying incriminating things, or things that otherwise do not help one's reputation, Tommy Dreamer lost a good gig at TNA because of the controversy he generated on the Plane Ride from Hell episode. While it was the producers' prerogative to include what he said in the final edit, I do think that it'll make personalities appearing on subsequent series more guarded with their words.



  • Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭jo187


    Possible, but wrestlers love to talk especially does not currently connected to WWE. I do wonder what season 4 will be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,551 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Good question. There's a lot of material to potentially work with from the last 150 years or so of pro wrestling, but you still need stories that are unique and mean something to the viewer, which pares things down a bit. A wrestler falling into a cycle of drug abuse and desolation is horrible, and each of stories deserves to be heard, but you have to weigh the other consideration of making a show that is entertaining and keeps viewers guessing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,530 ✭✭✭savemejebus


    Impact quietly rehired dreamer after what they considered was enough time for folk to forget what he said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60,315 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    I doubt Dreamer was ever sacked more likely told to go home and keep his head down for a few months till things blow over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60,315 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,493 ✭✭✭✭The Nal




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