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Constant grid power consumption

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  • 22-03-2022 10:34am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭


    Just wondering if anyone else has had this issue or ideas of how to resolve it. I continuously get small power drawn from grid even though battery has plenty of power and plenty excess solar during the day. You can see it for example in today's usage again. Just ignore the 2-4am as I don't draw from battery then as very cheap rate and only have a 5kw battery.

    Have checked meter clamp connections etc. Connected to a Solis 6kw 5G hybrid inverter. Anyone else with this issue?



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Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,964 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Looks like the solis runs on a slight import when running on batteries.

    Is there any way to "tune" or offset the the CT data? I dont have a solis myself so cant help any more than that.

    I know the hybrids have a "meter" that does all the measuring. Is there any buttons on that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Cheers Graeme there is no option from what I can see in the Solis but will look into the meter itself tonight



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Solis meter is a Acrel ACR10R.

    https://www.acrel.uk/acr10r-energy-meter-for-solar-inverter.html

    Can't find anything in the manual about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    Post DSP and HMI firmware. I had this problem with DSP version 25. It was constantly pulling power no matter what.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    On DSP firmware 25 here.

    Did you manage to resolve it?



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    I'd recommend getting Solis to upgrade your firmware. I've noticed a drop in my grid consumption since I upgraded to 3A0029.

    Previously, at high SOC, the battery used to be "disabled", greyed out in the Solis Cloud app.

    With the new firmware, it is always active. Even at 100% SOC, there is a small trickle battery discharge (purple in Solis Cloud app) of 0.1-0.2A. I have found that this has resulted in much lower grid pull when load exceeds generation because the inverter reacts much faster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    The solution for me was to downgrade to 22. I know another person who had same issue in diferent forum. There was a bug opened with Solis support for this. You may ask them about it. I do not know if DSP can be upgraded/downgraded OTA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭connesha


    Do you see your meter moving by the corresponding amount @irishchris ? (or if on smart meter, can you download usage data from supplier)

    I'm also on a Solis 6kw 5G hybrid, with 3A0029. And 5kwh battery.

    Heres how mine looks:

    Reading the data from Bord Gais, given in 30 min intervals, I'm importing an average of 30w through the day and night, totalling some 0.75 kwh imported per 24 day. These are on days/nights where generation exceeded use, battery carried through the night with some to spare (no charging) , and usage didn't peak over what inverter/battery could supply. Daytime fluctuates up and down, but still seems to average about the same.

    I notice on the Daily Production thread that someone is getting through 7 days with only 1 daytime unit... This wouldn't happen for me, even if house was idle and generating 35kwh a day...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Yes on a smart meter and can see on bord gais daily usage I'm using just under 1kw a day when have a lot of excess generation and battery. Myenergi app also showing the continuous grid consumption throughout the day and corresponding usage figures



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    There are two scenarios;

    1. Load exceeds generation -> Solis meter CT monitors grid draw and ramps up battery accordingly
    2. Generation exceeds load, battery full -> MyEnergi CT monitors grid surplus and ramps up load accordingly

    Are you seeing excessive grid consumption under both scenarios? Scenario 2 can be resolved through an export margin on the MyEnergi device. I'm not aware of how to solve Scenario 1.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Scenario one rarely as even last two weeks production has been crazy high and still having slight draw from grid.

    Scenario two I don't have issue with as have export margin setup on Eddi as had seen this issue way back for few days and never since setting export margin up.

    Problem I have is all the time and more noticeable at night where battery has sufficient charge but draws from grid continuously.

    Take last night for example as easier to see with low usage in graph. You can ignore the 2-5am where I just use cheap ev grid so no charge or discharge. My battery today ran out for few minutes around 8am as fog so low generation. If you look at the rest of the night and morning you will see the continuous grid consumption when running off batteries on my base load




  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭connesha


    I'd set the Eddi Export Margin to 50W and the Response Delay to 2s a couple of weeks back, when originally started looking at this (but haven't done much looking since). Its still like that now. (and don't have a Zappi)

    Looking at yesterday and today, see the MyEnergi stats, and then below see the bord gais meter readings for some of the same period


    Chris, is yours similar levels?

    I'm not sure its Eddi related as its all night, while Eddi is "waiting", and the margin is set. But, to be fully sure I'll disconnect the Harvi CT clamp and turn off the Eddi MCB from 6pm this evening, and see the meter readings tomorrow morning...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    2022-03-23T00:00:00+00:00 0.01kwh

    2022-03-23T00:30:00+00:00 0.0085

    2022-03-23T01:00:00+00:00 0.0085

    2022-03-23T01:30:00+00:00 0.0085

    2022-03-23T02:00:00+00:00 0.0085

    2022-03-23T02:30:00+00:00 0.0085

    2022-03-23T03:00:00+00:00 0.0085

    2022-03-23T03:30:00+00:00 0.0085

    2022-03-23T04:00:00+00:00 0.009

    2022-03-23T04:30:00+00:00 0.0095

    2022-03-23T05:00:00+00:00 0.0085

    2022-03-23T05:30:00+00:00 0.021

    2022-03-23T06:00:00+00:00 0.103

    2022-03-23T06:30:00+00:00 0.091

    2022-03-23T07:00:00+00:00 0.0145

    2022-03-23T07:30:00+00:00 0.0035


    Above is my nighttime draw from grid on Wednesday AM. Wheni go into reading on the Eddi at these times it shows a constant changing pull from the grid.

    Be interesting to see how you get on with disconnecting the clamp and turning off the eddi.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I'll chuck a theory into the proverbial hat, that it's the battery balancing.

    Might be an interesting experiment to disconnect the battery for an hour or two and see if it goes away. (I assume you have an isolator for the battery?) If it does go away, well there's your culprit, and if it doesn't well you ruled out another variable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    @irishchris do you have any backup load connected? How much power is backup pulling?



  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭connesha


    Mine is twice as bad as yours a night @irishchris 😱

    @reklamos , for mine I've nothing connected into Backup; I haven't even connected a cable into the backup plug on the inverter yet. But have not disabled the backup output in the inverter.

    Other thing I'm wondering about is the position of the meter CT clamp. It is clamping the CU input, but its a tight space and has other cables kinda touching it. Maybe skewing ever so slightly? And its extended from the attic vis Cat5/6, where a twisted pair is used for each clamp terminal (e.g. 2 oranges for one side, 2 blues for another) To avoid interference over the run, maybe be better with one from each pair per side?

    The harvi is clamped before the meter (between meter and main fuse)

    Anyway, harvi/eddi disconnect test tonight, and perhaps some others the next night.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    No backup load connected. Often nothing showing as coming from backup but 70w at minute




  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    I've checked my bordgais measurements. I see it fluctuating in region 0.005 to 0.007 during night time and this is perfetly normal since usage is never static and inverter is constantly trying to balance out. 0.007kWh is just 7W. If you look at inverter you can see that grid value keeps going up and down even during day time when there is plenty of sun and battery is charged. I would be woried if the usage was getting closer to 0.1kWh



  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭connesha


    Backup power isn't something I'd been looking at previously, so just stated monitoring 1.5 hours ago (assuming Bypass Load Power is Backup). Can see it does fluctuate in, even though nothing connected to inverter port. 5 second interval monitoring.


    (BTW, thanks reklamos and Jonathan for all in the Automation thread that enabled this monitoring)


    Anyone know how to disable the backup output in newer Solis Inverter SW?

    Online Manuals for older versions have a high level menu in Advanced Settings, but now its not obvious...





  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Mine often is around 90w/100w grid consumption when there is adequate generation



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  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    It is under Storage energy set/control parameters. Set backup suply to disabled and save the settings

    This thing is floating and depends on your usage at the time. The more devices you have on and the more clouds in the sky, the more work inverter has to do to flatten the usage. Also diverters add another spanner in the works as they want to do the same, but they are measuring usage on their own. Below is from my inverter. You can see that during night the variations are low but once people start waking up and sun appears the variations increase.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    In sure I recall not having this issue with my older 3.6kwp inverter. Alright maybe I'm remembering blank areas of grid power when there was high generation?

    Either way mine is working out about 2kwh a day from idle usage which whilst not breaking the bank is frustrating having to pay for 60ish kWh every bill needlessly



  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    2kWh a day is definetly not normal. Where are you getting that figure from? Was there a day when you had you had enough solar/battery to cover you for 24 hours? With recent wehather I am on my day 8 now. I have these ripples as shown above but my total grid consumption a day is very close to 0



  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭connesha


    Yea, same here @irishchris , its closer to 1kwh per day for me (depending on my usage), and its constant 30w at night when house load is low/pretty constant. Am more interested to understand than concern about the cost. I appreciate that when appliances are coming on and off the inverter is playing catchup, and there will be import (and slight excessive export) at times of load change. But its the constant 30w export that doesn't add up.

    FYI, I've made 3 changes today, so can check on those in the morning with new BG download:

    1. Disabled backup in inverter settings
    2. Remove harvi clamp and turn off Eddi MCB (will do that in an hour)
    3. Pushed the meter CT clamp to the side a little. It was up against another live cable, so maybe some interference (not basing this one on anything other than guess/hope)

    Failing these, the only other test I can think of is to move the meter CT clamp



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Be interested to see how this goes for you tonight. Have disabled backup on mine also for now



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    Pretty sure that won't make a difference I have mine turned off for a while and it still shows activity daily:




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Interesting to see from 11-2am your grid usage seems zero though? Mine never drops that low at any stage



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    I just checked and that day, the 24th, the battery lasted until 2am (which is very rare), exactly when it was 0 for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭connesha


    Initial results from last night not showing any difference. I normally compare from 11pm to 6am, as this time has cleaner numbers: there is no generation and house load is low/constant (except if fridge kicks in). So, this is only initial because its comparing just 2 data points: 23:00->23:30 & 23:30->00:00. It'll be tomorrow before can see 00:00->06:00

    So, if continue to see the same from 00:00->06:00, it rules out the Eddi and Backup Supply (for the constant import anyway)

    Thats 15wh in each 30 min slot, so a pretty constant 30w import. Same as previous days. This is still about twice what you're seeing @irishchris and @reklamos . You seem to have approx 17w and 12w respectively

    It really is a shame we cant find a way of setting an offset/margin in the meter or the inverter. In summer, could set this 30w or even 50w... its producing so much these days, it makes sense to lose a little rather than unnecessarily importing....

    Next thing I'm considering is the cat5 extension from CT clamp to meter. Its using a pair into each terminal, so it's not taking any noise reduction advantages of having twisted pairs. So perhaps if a single pair is used it would be less susceptible to interference. While I don't see any recommendation on this for the meter setup, other uses of CT clamp do have recommendations, e.g. this from a zappi manual:





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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,504 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I mentioned it previously, but have you considered isolating the battery from the inverter for a night? (Just to rule it out)

    My thoughts are that the BMS is doing some kind of balancing in these periods. It would seem "odd" to be fair, but the whole thing seems odd if you ask me.



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