"Green" policies are destroying this country

RandomViewer · 20-03-2022 08:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810983#Comment_118810983

No one gives lifts anymore, too many insurance claims,

Ubbquittious · 20-03-2022 08:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810983#Comment_118810983

Ah but if you use an app and allow a bunch of hipsters in in California to track your habits with AI then it's carpooling not thumbing

malinheader · 20-03-2022 08:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810983#Comment_118810983

How is car sharing thumbing.

Done a fair bit myself when I was younger because I didn't have a car. People who thumb are looking for a free ride, nothing to do with sharing or pooling.

brokenangel · 20-03-2022 08:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811088#Comment_118811088

How is it not sharing? Someone is going the same way and you share a car with them.

brokenangel · 20-03-2022 08:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811067#Comment_118811067

How would giving a lift mean you will get an insurance claim?

Unless you crash?

malinheader · 20-03-2022 08:55PM

Car sharing as were being told by certain parties is instead of 1 occupant to a car fill the car so less cars on the road. You take it in turns whose car you take.

If you have no car your cadging a lift as we say up here. If you have no car what are you sharing??

20-03-2022 09:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118810904#Comment_118810904

No it is not.

Not only is it, but you then follow up the above denial with a paragraph of whataboutery again. See below

It`s about the greens wrecking our economy when it will achieve sweet f a unless the four largest emitters, (with three of that four being among the strongest economies on the planet), who have clearly shown they have no intentions of dropping their use of coal for energy generation.

Anyway,moving on

The transition we have managed so far certainly hasn`t achieved the low cost electricity energy we were told it would

Who said it would lead to lower cost electricity at this stage of the transition?

How are we going to achieve the transmission to 100% renewable energy where practically all of our renewable energy presently comes from wind that requires non-renewables to keep the lights on

Asked and answered on a regular basis on this thread. You're a regular contributor here so it's strange that you would ask this. I even posted a reply to tom1ie within the last 2 days. You're welcome to have a look.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211251/green-policies-are-destroying-this-country

where Irish Greens have banned exploration licences

Just a clarification, it was a cabinet decision, i.e. FF, FG and GP cabinet members signed off and approved the ban.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ban-on-licences-for-new-oil-and-gas-comes-into-force-following-cabinet-decision-1.4474497

are attempting to ban LNG

Again another clarification required here. The PfG states that LNG terminals make no sense for Ireland so they have no intention or interest in developing them.

There is an active PP application with ABP for a terminal in Shannon.

There is a PMB from Nessa Hourigan looking to ban LNG terminals.

Her bill will not prevent the Shannon terminal from being built if granted and the Irish market is not big enough for 2 terminals given the long term prospects of such an investment.

So in effect its a publicity stunt that has no bearing on the real situation. Wouldn't be the first time a politician has pulled a stroke like that.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/law-proposed-that-would-see-liquefied-natural-gas-terminals-banned-1.4806106

will not even consider reopening turf burning stations

And again, allow me to clarify your misunderstanding of the situation.

The peat power stations had to close as their planning permission had expired and attempts to extend it were rejected by the planning authority.

Given that, there is no feasible approach that could pass a planning application again.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/esb-to-close-two-peat-powered-generating-stations-1.4076614

will not consider nuclear other than hoping they can scrounge it from elsewhere hoping it will be there at a sufficient level when needed

Nuclear power is currently not possible in Ireland due to the legislation that prevents it. Like literally says "no feckin nuke power on irish soil". Only way to change that would be to change the legislation, which there is virtually no support for.

In addition nuke plants are utterly bonkers economically and you can't build 1,you have to have a second as these are baseload stations and when a nuke plant goes down, it can sometimes be months or years before they come back online.

Big risk to take.

and plan to close Tarbert next year and Moneytpoint 2 years later. ?

Well yeah, they emit a crap ton of, well, crap, into the air. They need to be shutdown but its not like we're just going to be shutting the down and leaving a void.

Note, Moneypoint is already being lined up with a far more important role down the line. The transmission infrastructure is already there so it's not going to be left idle. Its very likely that Tarbert will be pivoted also to serve as a connection point for offshore wind.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/shannon-port-gets-28m-infrastructure-boost-41452744.html

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0224/1282842-esb-lays-moneypoint-offshore-wind-plan-before-planners/

AckwelFoley · 20-03-2022 09:13PM

I think some of the Green ideas are great, but some are just bullshit. Looks great but really painting over the bullshit and only kidding ourselves driving around in an electric car thinking we have just saved the planet when in fact we are sourcing 8 kg of lithium, 35 kg of nickel, 20 kg of manganese and 14 kg of cobalt for each battery from countries that I'm sure aren't using environmentally friendly practices of mining all while plugging in and charging fro electricity that is powered from fossil fuels such as gas

France i believe have just reclassed Nuclear energy now as renewable, so with the stroke of a pen, its renewable and i think some similar trickery has been done or attempted with gas.

Some of the measures towards renewable feel like they're optic, but scratch the surface and they're not. They come with a footprint.

We complain about the Chinese, Indian and the Russians not sharing the same interest, nor will they, the only way we (the west) bring about change in this regard is to get rid of the single use garbage that they produce

My big gripe with PV solar. I'm getting in a system next month to reduce the bills. When, down the line most people have it, watch, like night follows day, the ESB will hike their bullshit standing charges to make up the shortfall, so in essence you'll pay what you used to pay before you ever had solar.

20-03-2022 10:05PM

I'm not going to get involved in the nuclear vs. LPG debate, for the very simple reason that I dont have the necessary knowledge to contribute .

I'm also going to choose to accept the broad definition of "Green policies", rather than making an argument that is pro, or anti Green Party (No, I don't vote for them).

I suspect most Western Countries are fiddling while Rome burns, tbh.

I don't understand why legislation is not put in place to limit plastic packaging, as opposed to forcing the consumer to pay for the packaging, then pay for the waste disposal, and resultant carbon from lorries transporting said packaging across the Country. Surely it would be more carbon efficient to just limit the amount of plastic that can be used in the first place?

I don't understand why supermarkets are not encouraged to sell food in smaller quantities, thus avoiding waste.

I don't understand why airlines fly across the Atlantic (and elsewhere), with passenger numbers well below capacity - surely there has to be a better system? Meanwhile, Joe Soap is penalised for driving to work!

In short - I don't understand why the end consumer pays for everything, despite having very limited choice on how goods are either packaged, or disposed of.

I'm in favour of saving the planet. I'm in favour of Green policies. I just don't agree with either the logic of the policies being forced on people, or, the fact that said policies are imposed without affordable alternatives for many people.

In my opinion, theres no point in giving tax breaks on electric vehicles if

A: You can't afford to buy one in the first place, and

B: There aren't enough charge points available to get you where you want to go.

Lastly, do people seriously think they should get to dictate what people are going to eat?

Meanwhile, it's acceptable for cut flowers to be flown all over the world, and no-one says a word?

Lastly, how is it acceptable that a lot of delegates at Ecofin flew in on private jets, then encourage policies to penalise those who use less carbon driving to work all year, than is used in one or two trips in their private jets.

As I said, I'm in favour of green policies - but I'd like to see affordable alternatives in place before penalising those who have no choice. I'd also like to see something remotely like common sense being used to promote sustainable policies, as opposed to using the climate crises as a money grabbing exercise.

brokenangel · 20-03-2022 10:15PM

^^^^

To answer some of the above. In regards to the electric cars the grants got put in place to try attract new buyers to the cars. I would suggest now you have car manufacturers who are just increasing the price of the car because they know the grant is in place.

If people are buying new cars, then they are selling old cars. The more cars that are sold the more electric cars flow down to second hand users. Not everyone has to buy a new electric car, it is better for the environment to buy 1 car and then drive it till it drops off the road, the CO2 to create a car is huge.

The charge points are interesting because you have multiple new companies all installing. I have an electric car 5+ years and used a public charger 3, maybe 4 times in all that time. That was with a small battery car, a lot of the newer cars have such a big battery most people will only need to charge 1-2 times per week.

Shops are interesting, we actually had a perfect system years ago. Then for some reason it was decided to cover everything in plastic. I don't even know why. I do know in US/UK they are moving away from having everything in plastic.

The bigger problem is people now expect the same fruit all year around, when in reality the seasons mean this is not possible. So that's why you have trucks/planes etc transporting food all over the World and we have such high waste. This is not going to change because people demand choice.

RandomViewer · 20-03-2022 10:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811209#Comment_118811209

Bump the head getting in or out, trip getting out nip fingers in the door, PTSD from a near miss, people will claim for anything and Insurance companies seem happy to humour them

RandomViewer · 20-03-2022 10:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811322#Comment_118811322

On the ESB thing, a relative owns a vacant house, they go up now and then, turn the heat on etc, uses about 170units for 2months, Bill was €85,

charlie14 · 20-03-2022 11:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811287#Comment_118811287

In fairness you put a lot of time and effort into that post, but its till the same ignoring of reality and contains no answers to the questions being asked.

Just to go through that point by point.

1 My points on CO2 emissions stands and you have shown nothing to to show otherwise.

2 The story was being sold that renewables would provides with cheaper electricity. It has not, nor will it be while electricity is being priced using the green favoured marginal model. Presently under that pricing regime if 90% of our electricity came from renewables we would still be paying the same as if 100% came from natural gas.

3 Our indigenous gas fields will be depleted by 2025. We will not have 100% renewable energy by then, or anytime in the foreseeable future. We will continue to need a non-renewable source to fill the gap of unreliable wind energy. As we are the only option is natural gas due to other than gas fired plants being shut or downgraded. Our options for natural gas are, a pipeline from a none E.U. country, (and we see how that can work out), or the capability to source and buy our own LNG which would require a LNG terminal something. Greens have shown they are opposed to not just a LNG terminal but LNG.

So no natural gas, liquefied or not, and no nuclear, recognised by the E.U as the only other transition energy source, what do Irish greens think is going to be the energy source that is going to fill that gap ?

4 Greens will not even consider the possibility of re-opening two turf burning plants that have just been shut for 15 months.Be that with a further application (where the most vociferous opponent to the previous application as far as I know is employed as a Green Party researcher in the Seanad) or by legislation with us facing a national energy crisis.

5 My mention of nuclear, (even if greens for years have been part of the problem rather than the solution regarding an adult discussion on nuclear), was again to emphasis that when it came to filling the gap of wind energy the greens have no answer other than going scrounging of others hoping they have a surplus when we need it. That`s not a policy. It`s crossing your fingers and hoping every time you need it will work out.

6 Of course Tarbert and Moneypoint emit a load of crap (even if some of the wealthiest nations in the world don`t give.. well a crap about doing it), by 2025 with gas fields depleted, no LNG, no nuclear and no Tarbert or Moneypoint with both shut there is nothing left, so unless you can show me how we are going to reach 100% renewable energy by then, then at that staged we are going to be well and truly screwed.

Mecanudo · 20-03-2022 11:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811287#Comment_118811287

I see you're attempting to row back on a whole bunch of a whole bunch of 'green' misinformation which has already been debunked on this thread. Though at this stage its really surprising considering the habit of the greens generally treating people like mushrooms, keeping them in the dark and feeding them compost.

Let me set you straight on a few things there

Whataboutery is when you change the subject. The op didn't change the subject at all but rather provided context of the situation regarding emissions globally.

It's funny how some dyed in the woolites generally don't like the inconvenient facts that without the big Five emitters of greenhouse gas reigning in their emissions - the climate is effectively fuked.

But let's move on.

It has been widely argued for well over a decade that Renewable power generation is cheaper than fossil fuel production and would bring more price stability. It hasn't.

Btw no you haven't adequately answered how we are going to move to 100% renewable energy generation. Because the answer to that involves using EU sanctioned generation methods including natural gas and nuclear- to which the greens here have generally responded to by having a mickey fit and or simply pretending that those generation methods are not needed.

And no the decision to ban the exploration for futute natural gas resources was NOT a cabinet decision.

We learn from one of those curiously deleted green party Web pages that and I quote

The move to end new licences for oil and gas exploration has been a Green Party policy for many years and was a key commitment in the Programme for Government.

The Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications and Green Party Leader, Eamon Ryan TD,

today secured Cabinet approval for the inclusion of this legislation in the Climate Action and Low Carbon Amendment Bill, which is due to go before the Oireachtas in the coming weeks. This commitment has been given effect immediately, meaning no new applications will be now accepted by the Department

https://web.archive.org/web/20210202155316/https%3A//www.greenparty.ie/green-party-welcomes-immediate-ban-on-new-oil-and-natural-gas-exploration/

And the reason the gp 'secured cabinet approval" for this utterly ridiculous stance, which is in apparent opposition to the green parties own policy of reducing Irelands dependence on imported fossil fuels?

Because the same green party is an effective lynchpin in the present coalition government and appears to weild an inordinate amount of influence to railroad this and other utterly daft pieces of legislation through for approval.

As For LNG - from a quick Google it would appear that the green party seem to be behind practicality every move to block LNG terminals even if those terminals are backed throughout the EU. Once again showing just how out of step and stupid that policy really is, especially considering what is going on in Europe atm.

https://m.independent.ie/business/world/ireland-to-miss-out-on-us-plan-to-supply-eu-with-gas-because-we-dont-have-a-terminal-41289645.html

20-03-2022 11:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118811629#Comment_118811629

I can understand your point re: second hand electric cars. Having said that, having to possibly replace a battery is going to put a lot of people off. As to charge points, there's one in my local village, then none for 30 miles... there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that the majority of people in this area are going to go electric anytime soon!

The answer to multipacks is pretty simple. Large supermarket chains get price reductions for bulk purchases. The thing is, not everyone is going to use a multipack of apples, oranges, or A.N Other before they spoil. The end result is supermarkets sell more, hence, greater profits, but the consumer and the environment loses...

Apologies, I wasn't referring specifically to vegetables or fruits out of season when I mentioned people being dictated to about what they eat, I was referring to comments earlier in the thread about beef being unsustainable for the environment. With all due respect to the poster in question, if I want to eat steak or a beef stew, someone telling me nuts are a more sustainable substitute isn't going to make me choose to have nuts for dinner.

I agree that people have become accustomed to having vegetables and fruits out of season, and that its not sustainable. Having said that, we imported over 10.1 billion in agrifoods in 2020 - items such as potatoes, onions, cabbage and carrots - all of which we are capable of producing ourselves, (and to a higher standard, imho), and some of which was imported while it was in season here. Trade agreements are outside of consumer control, yet they have an impact on both producers and consumers in this Country.

My point is that the consumer is always made to pay - but often doesn't have an alternative.

Personally, I'd prefer to buy local produce - yet if I want to buy milk from the local farmer, he cannot legally sell it to me.

These are issues that I've never heard any Green policy activist mention, yet, they are discussions that need to be had, if policymakers are remotely serious about halting climate change.

brokenangel · 21-03-2022 12:04AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812039#Comment_118812039

On the cars, you won’t have to replace the battery. The very early Leafs had a dodgy battery, since then improvement made, even Hyundai figured out they had a bad battery and replaced all cars free, my parents 2019 will get a new battery soon so the chance of poor quality are gone

My parents live in middle of nowhere and I think the closest charger is a Lidl one at least 30 miles away, I live in countryside and no idea where local charger is. Home charging is all we do.

I eat meat, I eat veg, I eat more or less everything. People are so interested in the local Aldi/Lidl they don’t bother looking local. The local butcher is dying and they shouldn’t because number 1 the quality is better plus the ads on TV is waffle, no Irish supplier is big enough for all the lidl and aldi. You are buying poor quality food from god knows where.

The farmer cannot sell to you because they have not pasteurized milk and that can be dangerous. I do like that local egg suppliers are now setting up stalls you can buy eggs direct from in village etc.

Everything comes down to price, you walk in and the Irish supplier is at 2 euro for carrot. The Tesco/Lidl/Aldi version is 1 euro and come from Outer Mongolia 😂 guess who most people, including me a lot of times buys

Dakota Dan · 21-03-2022 12:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118805046#Comment_118805046

Straight over your head.

Dakota Dan · 21-03-2022 12:23AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118804998#Comment_118804998

Everybody knows the climate changes, how exactly could anyone feel superior?

Multipass · 21-03-2022 09:17AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812080#Comment_118812080

I hadn’t heard about these magical everlasting batteries - do tell

The fact is that people who can only afford 10+ year old cars are the ones who are going to be saddled with failing batteries, and will be the ones stranded between home and the nearest charge points. Nothing any Green Party member or politician will need to worry about in their brand new, pretending to be green, electric car, that uses no resources whatsoever to manufacture.

brokenangel · 21-03-2022 09:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812618#Comment_118812618

Nothing is ever lasting.

How are people "saddled with failing batteries"? as I posted above, the recommendation from the Green Party, including Eamonn, was not to buy a new electric car. It is to drive your current car till it falls off the road as that is better. But if you are buying a new car then you should be looking at electric.

P.S. you can get stranded between home and a fuel station in a combustion engine car as well.

Multipass · 21-03-2022 10:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812645#Comment_118812645

Disingenuous to say that driving your current car until it falls off the road is the recommendation of the Green Party - their policy is to use tax to make petrol cars unaffordable, and force a switch to electric. 1 million by 2030 remember, I doubt very many of those million will be people whose 25 yr old car just gave up the ghost.

brokenangel · 21-03-2022 11:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812760#Comment_118812760

About 120k new cars are bought every year in Ireland. The actual target is 845,000 passenger cars, 95,000 vans, 3500 lorries and 1,500 electric buses.

Plus it is a target, not a requirement. Huge difference.

Eamonn Ryan was on radio talking about how he ran his car into the ground and then when it was gone had to swap. The CO2 used to create a car is way too high, no matter what engine. So yes they say drive your car till it falls off the road.

The policy you mention, Carbon tax, is driven by the Paris Agreement which was put in place when the Greens had 2 TD's in the Dail and not members of the government. So instead of making accusations against people maybe do a little bit of research into what you are posting about.

Wanderer78 · 21-03-2022 11:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812966#Comment_118812966

states have to step in to try prevent such outcomes, its critical we move to renewables as quickly as possible, preventing as many bankruptcies as possible

Wanderer78 · 21-03-2022 11:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813012#Comment_118813012

whats the craic, what did they do?

brokenangel · 21-03-2022 11:28AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812966#Comment_118812966

Not sure why you are sharing here? number 1 it has nothing to do with Ireland. Number 2 the issue is not with solar power, the issue is the government has backed out of an agreement they made to the citizens

This kind of reminds me of the cash for ash deal up the north, poorly thought out grants and then when everyone has invested the government does a legger.

Wanderer78 · 21-03-2022 11:34AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813072#Comment_118813072

we must prevent such outcomes here, elements of nationalisation will be required to get the job done

Wanderer78 · 21-03-2022 12:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813112#Comment_118813112

well theres plenty of individuals and companies just doing that, and id imagine theyve done their homework, and i wish them the best of luck with it, we need them taking these risks, but i will partly agree with state protections for such investments, we ve protected the corporate sector for a long time here, we should also be protecting such critical investments

such investments are high risk, particularly cryptos, largely unregulated markets which could go to zero in an act, if you re investing for long term gains, you re probably p1ssing against the wind, its likely regulations will eventually be implemented in such markets, and values will collapse. and to add insult, the energy requirements for mining are unsustainable, and the fact the majority of our energy comes from fossil fuels, you can be pretty much guaranteed regulations very soon.... a significant proportion of cryptos and their mining, is already under institutional control, investment funds etc, so you can be damn sure, average joes are being plucked off fairly quickly now, pump and dumps etc

yes tech stocks have been ramping ahead, but we must also question this and their general behaviors, central bank activities such as qe have immensely helped valuation, making it easier for such companies to continue engaging in financialised activities such as share buy backs, pushing up prices, this money was created to aid 'productive activities' but......

all in all, this costs you, the taxpayer, by increasing energy demands, thus increasing pollutants, and all its dangers, and helps to grow wealth inequality......

brokenangel · 21-03-2022 12:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813072#Comment_118813072

What a load of rubbish, it has nothing to do with Ireland

Spain made a huge error when they made announcement and the backlog of projects is huge. The backlog is huge because it was a quick way to make loads of money. Plus the price people got paid for electricity was too high.

See below but plenty more information. It's not just solar but wind as well. As I said this reminds me of the "cash for ash" when a poorly run government implemented a solution without any consideration.

If you have done any research on the solar PV plan in Ireland it is years been discussed and the price per kWh is not up for sale to the highest bidder. It is an agreed per kWh price.

The whole Spain implementation is how not to do it. That been said, people spending their entire life savings on a solar farm to be told they can't make a penny out of it anymore is really silly from Spain and should be resolved.

https://www.pv-tech.org/problems-with-spanish-solars-boom-bust-and-boom/

Mecanudo · 21-03-2022 12:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813059#Comment_118813059

Whats with the continued gatekeeping? The issues are certainly relevant to issues to investment in renewable energy projects and all too good to be true, get rich quick type schemes. A warning for all would be investors for the buyer to be aware.

What's interesting is that bulk of renewable energy projects here are largely financed by investment companies looking to expand their portfolios which seem to place little emphasis on whether any such projects are environmentally sustainable or viable.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/derrybrien-wind-farm-how-it-all-went-wrong/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54994865

And no need to look North for similar issues to Spain regarding government promoted investment vehicles. Our own government was previously involved with the sell off of public utilities where ultimately those who invested got shafted.

brokenangel · 21-03-2022 12:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813220#Comment_118813220

The issue is the system in Spain was set up wrong as per the link. That is why people invested life savings into them because looking at it you would become a millionaire very quickly. The returns seem to be huge

in Irelands case it is very restricted. For large implementations this is been run by companies who have to buy a license etc. They are also not a person spending a million to put a few large panels in the middle of a field. They have planning etc etc etc.

For small installation, the agreed per kWh is in place. It is not a sell to highest bidder like in Spain. For home user then it is still been worked out but the price per kWh will be tied to your electricity suppliers. You can only install a maximum system of 6kWh on your roof which is circa 20 panels, most roofs wont hold and if they can you won't be getting rich quick on what you export

"Green" policies are destroying this country

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