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Would an M50 bus or tram work?

  • 27-02-2022 12:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭


    My idea would be two buses, one leaving Swords and one leaving Clayton Hotel and going on the M50 and leaving at every junction to let passengers on and off with feeder buses going from each junction along the respective road (ie, one down the N7, the N4 etc.).

    The other one would be leaving Bray and going back towards Swords / Clayton.

    Or

    Build a tram parallel to the M50.


    This service would have to be operating for at least 18 hours a day with buses every 10 minutes at peak and operated at a nominal fee by the state so as to just break even to encourage use.



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,847 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Sure we could always just build another lane....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    But the bus would have to come off the m50 in order to serve stops which would defeat the purpose



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Yoozername.


    What about another orbital road built around it that will only be used specifically for the buses? The stops will be on this road itself.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    There was meant to be a metro line running from Tallaght to Blanchardstown with connections to the Red Line. It kept getting pushed back though. There were also plans to build another orbital road but got held back due to a mixup with some routing plans around Lucan that was understood to affect parks in the area.

    Overall, the point of your thread is a question worth answering because outside of the city, there's only the M50 and Lucan to cross the Liffey and get from the Northside to the Southside of Dublin. It bothers me when people complain about the excessive amount of cross city traffic and ignore the reason why it happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,432 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    If they had showed a bit foresight when the M50 was renovated then they could have had a bus ramp which would have a stop to interchange with the radial buses on the road. Yes, you would have a stop but it would be a short one.

    The M50 should have tolls on a all sections, which are less than the bus fare.

    It also should have park and rides in different parts of the city. An employer should not be allowed provide parking for people crossing the city, but should be allowed subsidise a P&R and the other side of the city and the bus journey to their premises.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,720 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    this has been discussed before, and I'm still skeptical of the value of such a service. No-one lives on the M50 and most destinations like workplaces, shopping centres etc are some distance off the motorway as well, so you're talking at least 2 changes for any journey utilising an M50 bus to get to work. Unless all 3 bus routes involved are very high frequency and reliable, then people won't use it. Metro West's proposed route at least went through areas where people live/work.

    Obviously lots of people use the M50 but their ultimate destinations are very scattered which doesn't lend itself to efficient public transport. And as others have mentioned, the junctions are not designed for a quick off/on which a bus service would need to do at every junction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Yoozername.


    How would that work for people who begin their journeys (ie, where they live) in rural or semi-rural locations? Your idea is good, but frequent buses and park and ride have to be in place before you start banning cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,432 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Absolutely, put park and rides further out and buses from there around the M50 to Sandyford etc, or maybe change over to the frequent M50 buses Subsidise these or have employers do so.

    The problem is this country is green fundamentalists. Park and Ride means you drive a car part of the way so they don't want them. But if people only drive part of the way then you halve the traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,432 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage





  • Registered Users Posts: 26,034 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Park and rides, if well-designed and located, can alleviate traffic congestion and improve amenity in urban areas, but they don't do a lot to reduce the environmental impact of transport. And they require a lot of land to be given over to car parking.

    I think we need to work out what we're trying to acheive here before we can say if park and rides will help us achieve it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,264 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    They require land for parking, but then they also have potential to reduce the "need" (or perhaps rather the desire) for more roads/ road widening etc. Reducing car journey km's, and largely out of congestion, would still be a win compared with the status quo.

    The reality is that people are already trying to do this, even with the lack of joined up thinking. The likes of the Ashford House in Ashford on the N11 have had to implement paid parking to stop people effectively using it as a park and ride. It's not too easy to get parking in Newtown on a working day (or at least wasn't in "before times".

    I do part car every day in the office - either park and bike or park and dart. I would reduce my car journey further if there was better active travel options further out and/or more frequent service south of Bray. Lack of parking and bus capacity by the time I'd be getting on as things stand rule out the BE Bus.

    Just to add, again on the N11 corridor - a link to Dart, Dublin Bus (Loughlinstown), Luas/ Sandyford would have potential.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,790 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'm not sure if I've read it before but maybe you can point us towards an article quoting "green fundamentalists" saying how they didnt want P&R because it would involve people driving.

    Or was your post just more of the anti-greens scaremongering nonsense that some people like to post because it suits their own agenda?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,656 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I always use the Black Ash P&R in Cork as the preferred setup here.

    Drive to a point equivalent to the Red Cow, park the car and get a 10-minutes-or-less bus directly into the city centre for a fiver (incl the parking and return trip). The only problem with this service is that it bizarrely doesn't run on Sundays and bank holidays when you'd expect more demand.

    A similar service at each of the main junctions to the M50 (N3, N4, N7 at minimum) with LUAS or dedicated bus services running into town would be a great thing.

    And I say this as a motorist who loves his car. 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,432 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I have no such quote to hand. However, it is clear that there are few park and ride sites and little intention to build any.

    As for the ad hominem comments, I am proposing more buses on the M50, this is not an anti green agenda but one that actually works.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,437 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The M50 needs a couple of more lanes added.

    The sooner the better.

    I'm delighted that the war in eastern Europe has accelerated advancement and crippled the "green agenda".

    All that's over folks.

    Try sell your agenda for holding back progress now.

    It's taken a war for you to wake up. Suddenly everyone is thinking about fuel and energy.

    Remember the people who tried to restrict the Irish nation exploiting their own resources.

    The Green Party will be finished after the next election. 🤗



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    There's a park and ride design office within the NTA who are designing multiple park and rides around Dublin.

    If you didn't know, that's fine but don't go around making claims about things you don't know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,432 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I didn't examine the plans and of course not all plans actually make it on the ground. However, I made two specific points, one that there should be park and rides to facilitate travel around the M50 and not just the to the city centre and a second point that employers should be discouraged from providing parking at the premises for poeple from the opposite side of the city, but allow pay fees for park and rides and the buses that connect them.

    If these type of measures are actually underway and I do not know about them, then all the better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    I like the idea of a bus/tram service serving the M50 and with the correct adjustments, it could work. Now, with the conversion of many M50 interchanges to freeflow spaghetti style ones, it has made this a bit trickier to implement as you can't just climb off and hop on to the M50 anymore without the risk of getting lost.

    Nevertheless, it isn't impossible and I would very much welcome the idea. It all depends on how big the trade offs are if I were to suddenly ditch my car while getting out to Citwest as the current public transport alternative quadruples the journey time.

    When designing public transport, it is imperative to ensure that the commute doesn't eat too much into the work-life balance. So, when living in one suburb and working in completely different suburb, it isn't daunting to take up employment. That's a major end game in tackling conjestion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,847 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    The Greens were apparently finished after the financial collapse yet they’re still here....



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