Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Denny61 · 06-03-2022 09:55AM

That propaganda is not to justify the nuclear option..people on here and others are losing the run of them selves .and proclaimed military analysts..its only to justify a conventional war.and since putins soldiers are in it for the long haul .he has to have them.prepared...plus as their economy in shreds and in total isolation .so stop the scare mongering..people seem to be getting off on it ..

06-03-2022 09:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739549#Comment_118739549

As opposed to spray paint? What has been put on looks more difficult than painting on.

06-03-2022 09:57AM

Has anyone noticed the focus both radio and TV have given this weekend to understanding the Russian people themselves- both how they think and what they think?

It's important to take into account, especially when watching and seeing the Putin propaganda machine in action internally in the country.

It's become apparent to me from taking a step back, that 10s of millions of Russians actually believe the news stories issued on their national broadcast stations. "The government wouldn't lie to us" is one such quote on a BBC feature this morning from a Russian lady in her 60's.

The implications of sanctions on the Russian people, will ensure a much stronger nationalistic feeling in Russians and a greater hatred of the West in general- I'm pretty much convinced of that. The use of the term Nazi's in relation to the regime in Ukraine is a very powerful word, and resonates strongly with the Russian people- essentially, if my TV station says there are Nazi's in Ukraine, then I believe that to be the case.

Also, we haven't been in listening mode to Russia over the last decade, and we're paying for that now. I'm not talking about appeasement- I'm talking about understanding. What this current war is teaching us, is, we don't understand how Russia thinks.

Taking the money of the oligarchs is the right thing to do- but we won't be able to use it in any negotiations - simply because by law, our laws, if this money is found to be the proceeds of crime or tax evasion or moneylaundering, it must be seized. So while we might give back this money to the Russian government, we can't hand it back to the oligarchs - so what motivation do they really have to help end the war? They won't get their money back.

The sanctions were important for us to implement- Russia gave us no choice there- but I think we should all realise also, the implications on the psyche and attitudes of the Russian people on the west- especially in conjunction with the Russian propaganda machine.

We're going to have to rethink how we deal with not just Russia but China also, in the future, especially with the threat of invasion of Taiwan - the US government, NATO and other institutions in the West are not set up correctly to successfully navigate these complex countries.

While these countries may not be willing to understand us, we'll only face wars in the future, if we don't understand them.

is_that_so · 06-03-2022 09:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739554#Comment_118739554

It would do away with any notion that they ever had of taking Ukraine and would at least bring even more sanctions until the Russian economy collapsed completely. They'd also kill their own troops. China would intervene directly anyway if they did.

realdanbreen · 06-03-2022 10:02AM

Can we just get back to figuring out a way to remove the tyrant putin from the face of the earth please.

God bless Ukraine 🇺🇦

To hell with Putin.

threeball · 06-03-2022 10:03AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739554#Comment_118739554

If the west allows a nuclear strike anywhere on European soil and doesn't retaliate, all bets are off. They will have shown just how weak they are and Putin exploits weakness.

06-03-2022 10:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739566#Comment_118739566

You're right. We should probably invite Russia to take over all our governments. This might make them not angry with us. 😠

If you think I've not give enough thought to your points, on the contrary, I've given them too much respect by replying.

06-03-2022 10:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739589#Comment_118739589

So you didn't read my post then is essentially what you're saying. I haven't said any of that bollox that you've posted above so obviously there's no engaging with you - good luck with hatching a plan to get rid of Putin and enjoy spending the reward money. Oh while you're at it, can you work out a solution to world peace and the climate crisis too.

Longing · 06-03-2022 10:26AM

As I stated last night from some media outlets Mariupol had been taken by Russia turned out to be not true.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1500395435088875523?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1500395435088875523%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublish.twitter.com%2F%3Fquery%3Dhttps3A2F2Ftwitter.com2FKyivIndependent2Fstatus2F1500395435088875523widget%3DTweet

06-03-2022 10:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739615#Comment_118739615

You basically said, let's not ti overly piss off Russia, understand them you said.

May as well ask a domestically abused person to understand their abuser, and its okay to be upset with them for a little while, but ultimately we need to understand you have to take them back.

06-03-2022 10:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739671#Comment_118739671

No I didn't- but like I said, you obviously don't have the capability to engage in any level other than "bomb Russia" so I'll just leave you to shout at the internet.

Tony EH · 06-03-2022 10:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739408#Comment_118739408

The west has been far too cosy with Putin and Russian oligarchs for too many years and that includes Trump, whether your politics is hurt by that fact or not.

06-03-2022 10:49AM

Moldova press conference taking place right now on BBC news

06-03-2022 10:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739683#Comment_118739683

No, I think the West/ROTW is doing a good job as it is.

1. Applying very hard sanctions

2. Supplying armaments/Intel to Ukraine

3 resisting calls to directly intervene

It's merde more direct help can't be given to Ukraine, but it's too risky.

The main take away/understanding of Russia is that they are happy with a 'strong man' and Putin can be made look weak by the above actions - the soonest the better.

06-03-2022 10:54AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739549#Comment_118739549

The Z on a number of these vehicles looks like it has been applied on top of the charring.

AckwelFoley · 06-03-2022 10:55AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739683#Comment_118739683

You're convinced that sanctions will harden the Russians resolve behind the dictator and against the west, which is a legitimate agruement, but I wouldn't be a convinced as you are. Perhaps in the short term, but in the long term I'd disagree myself. It will bring unease. But the real target will be the people with influence. When you don't live in a democracy its the people with money that have a far higher level of influence on the future of what happens. You could argue this happens in a democracy too, and it does happen, but to a lesser degree.

In any event, we can't sit back and just watch, we either hit thim with sanctions or bullets, we may be doing the latter by proxy, but some action needs to be taken and the absolute overwhelming majority of the west in in favor of sanctions

06-03-2022 11:00AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739715#Comment_118739715

And I never disagreed with you on points 1-3 in my post above. What I am highlighting, is the dogged believe in 10's of millions of Russians, that their government, and that includes Putin, cannot do any wrong- and what the government tells them on the news TV channels, is the truth.

The sanctions are one of our few options and certainly it was important we did them- but don't count on the Russian people enmase to rebel against Putin because of them- their hatred may well be diverted to the west- that's how institutionalised millions of Russians are.

And what choices will we have if China invades Taiwan? Again, my point being, we need to develop a new negotiations, war and sanctions playbook- our ways of negotiating are outdated compared to the strategies employed by Russia, and possibly soon China.

Understanding doesn't preclude posturing and action, at some stage. Today is the time for action- but we need to stop kidding ourselves, if this approach will work in the future.

Ko Chow · 06-03-2022 11:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118688932#Comment_118688932

Wibbs · 06-03-2022 11:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739226#Comment_118739226

The Irish/British parallels aren't too wild Wolf. Swap out Ireland for Ukraine and Britain for Russia, ramp up the numbers and violence and the lead up to the current clusterfúck in an Irish/British alternative history context would be something like this: The whole of Ireland gains some independence from Britain's empire after the latter's empire fades away. Of all their previous vassals the British see Ireland as theirs and their people. Loyalists in the North see themselves as British, Republicans obviously don't. Constant friction between the two groups results in paramiltarisation, Loyalists being burnt out of their homes by Republicans and vice versa and flares up into vicious open warfare between the IRA and the UVF at times. Dublin supplies the Republicans/IRA with support, London supplies the Loyalists/UVF. Loyalists are losing, many leg it to Britain and Dublin ramps up their military presence in Ulster and things are very tense, even deadly for the remaining Loyalists. Britain seeing homegrown sympathy for Irish Loyalists declares Ulster an 'independent' state and invades under the pretext/excuse of helping the Loyalists against the 'nazi' IRA/Republicans, but then expands to attack Cork, Dublin and Galway, intending to 'root out' IRA supporters in the Dail, install an Irish government loyal to Britain and essentially return Ireland to the United Kingdom(which they tried before indirectly but it didn't last). The world rightfully goes nuts at the British, the British people for the most part support their leaders from their point of view, while barstool republicans the world over shout Tiocfaidh ar la! on their Twitter bios from theirs.

06-03-2022 11:12AM

Denis Kireev, a member of the Ukrainian delegation at the recent negotiations, has reportedly been executed outside Pechersk Court by the Ukrianian security services (SBU). Along with 2 others.

The details are very unclear. It was initially claimed that he was suspected of treason. Some sources say he was investigated since 2020 and rumors of his spying for Russia had been in the media.

The Ukranian ministry of defense announced that 3 spies were killed during a special operation; however it seemed to celebrate the men and suggest they were killed heroically.

Beasty · 06-03-2022 11:12AM

Drop the Trump v Biden talk.

06-03-2022 11:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739725#Comment_118739725

Believe me, I'd prefer to see you "right" than me- - and see my other post, I never disagreed with sanctions.

it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Putin is obviously anxious about keeping the Russian population on his side- hence the closing of independent media outlets and his relentless propaganda campaign internally.

Can I ask you, IF there was some sort of negotiations and peace deal, do you honestly think that the oligarchs will get their money back? It's likely this money will be diverted to the humanitarian aid crisis for Ukrainians - so at this stage, what motivations do the oligarchs have for ending this? They're still screwed -the sanctions have done that and even with a peace agreement, the revenue investigations will tie up their billions for investigation for many years to come. If they've managed to escape to some island paradise with no extradition treaties (which many have) and take what money they have with them, that might be the best their lives will experience from here on in.

Tony EH · 06-03-2022 11:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739738#Comment_118739738

There's, literally, millions of Russians who already live in great hardship and have done for many, many, years. Long before Putin got to the Kremlin. They are the people who live outside of the main western urban areas like St. Petersburg, Moscow or Volgograd. Sanctions to them will probably mean very little. Who's in power means very little to them also.

In the short term, it'll be the average urbanite in the cities that will feel the pinch first as items will become harder and harder to get hold of and the power of their money continues to drop. But we'd be fooling ourselves if we think that the Russian people are just going to suddenly rise up against Vlad's rule. They have a long history of being able to put up with bad leadership and hardship. In living memory they have been through deprivation.

Maybe the younger folk, who have never known anything other than the last 25 years might be the first to move. But it'll take longer than we might think.

The thing is, the sanctions have to be consistent and they have to stay the course. But even now we see that the likes of Shell will talk a big game, but they still made the "tough decision" to by Russian goods anyway and once this has all blown over, I've no doubt that they and many others wagging their fingers will just go back to business as usual.

Gant21 · 06-03-2022 11:17AM

The back pedalling is starting already.

06-03-2022 11:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739775#Comment_118739775

Yeah I don't get this- how are they spies and "celebrated" at the same time? The news reports don't seem to provide any clarity on this. And to have 3 people as part of your negotiating team as spies? My god, that's not good.

06-03-2022 11:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739785#Comment_118739785

The oligarchs may not get all their money back, but at least they'll get a very close approximation of their fancy lives back if Putiin walks into a pointy umbrella.

06-03-2022 11:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739775#Comment_118739775

I'm totally confused by this. If I were on the negotiations team I'd be far more afraid of Russian reprisals, unless he was trying to be very pro Russia offer.

06-03-2022 11:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739787#Comment_118739787

I agree. And also, let's not forget there are people related to Ukrainians living outside of Russia in places like Moldova, who at least were in denial that there was a full on war in Ukraine. Whether these people are slowly changing their minds, i don't know but it shows you just what the ukrainian people are up against, in terms of achieving some support from their fellow citizens, both inside and outside Russia

Dohnjoe · 06-03-2022 11:26AM

The smaller punisher drones that the Ukrainians are using are apparently having good success. Undetectable by radar also.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-punisher-drones-hit-russian-troops-multiple-times-reports-2022-3?r=US&IR=T

Amprodude · 06-03-2022 11:27AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118739369#Comment_118739369

That was almost 30 years ago before social media.

Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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