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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    "Interact" is a big word for people vomiting up bitterness and bile against faceless and dehumanised targets of opportunity tbh :)

    Twitter is a cesspit. Facebook is corporate spyware. If they are "cancelled" in Russia, then it might be a genuine improvement for people there. However I am sure there is some domestic Russian equivalent which is just as toxic if not more so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Look, the events in Odessa were horrible, and nobody should have lost their lives, most of all the innocent people that were in the building.

    But I'm not letting you get away with calling the gang that descended on Odessa as merely pro-Russian protestors as if they were handing out flowers and hitting the peace pipe that day. You know full well those protestors were bused-in and armed to the teeth, including with Kalashnikovs and grenades and attacked a group of football fans (who were no choirboys themselves). The major violence started when the pro-Russian gang waded into the football ultras and shot one of them dead. Things rapidly got out of hand until the pro-Russian gang was corralled into the trade union building and the football ultras hurled a petrol bomb. There is serious evidence that the police were involved in the set-up to attack the football ultras in concert with the pro-Russian gang.

    There is a blow-by-blow account of the day that is definitive by an organization called the May 2nd group, I'd encourage people to read it instead of someone seriously burying the lead calling organized violent instigators with deadly weapons as protestors.

    There were no heroes that day. Not even the pro-Russians.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    No one. That's the big problem.


    If Belarus stop their fertilizer exports that's 40% of potash gone as well globally.


    The 2 largest, by some margin producers and exporters of fertilizer are not exporting now, China and Russia.


    The effect on global food supply will be significant.

    Look at the little disruption, that led to the Arab Spring. This is several orders of magnitude bigger. , No comparison.


    Tens of millions affected? There will be countries where that happens. Nevermind globally.


    The agri inputs crisis is the global story that no one is talking about and it's one of the biggest stories in the world now.

    Post edited by Danzy on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭briany


    You're missing the fact that Ukraine couldn't join NATO or the EU anyway, since it was partly occupied by Russia to begin with and had endemic problems with political corruption, therefore there was no pressing need to invade. In my opinion, the likelihood is that the invasion was called largely because of Putin's increasing paranoia. He's probably been stewing about this for the past couple of years in isolation. We can see how far apart he is on the subject in relation to some of his advisors in that televised meeting with government officials, shortly before the invasion commenced with Putin commanding one to 'speak plainly' as the man in question stumbled to answer about his view on the Ukraine situation.

    Now, as it relates to Ukraine taking a neutral position on even the ambition to join NATO or the EU, the problem is that this is a position the country cannot take if its public vote in officials running on a pro-Western platform, and its public would be doubly motivated to do so in future. That is unless we're to say that the Ukrainian elections would be rigged, but that in turn begs the question as to why the Ruskies or, indeed, the pro-Russia incumbents couldn't rig it in their favour in the past instead, then. It's hardly as if Putin is a stranger to such methods.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Strong words from retired US Army Colonel Douglas MacGregor:

    -The Russians have very carefully avoided damaging infrastructure

    -Ukrainian forces taking refuge in population centers, using civilians for cover

    -Zelenski is a puppet, acting under instructions. Needlessly endangering civilians. Not a hero.

    -Most of what comes out of Ukraine - retaking airfields etc - is proven nonsense and lies in 24-48hrs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Bmv9LzhNk



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13 Dazzel


    Can I ask on what basis do you believe this to have been the objective?

    Firstly, 1) I think Russia invading was its 'last resort' option when its other methods of intimidation failed and the west called its bluff. Putin himself has stated during his meeting with business officials that he was "surprised" that the west did not compromise due to his military buildup, leaving him with this course of action. I think this is highly believable.

    2) Russia's only interest in Ukraine is its military-strategic importance as a buffer zone. Its capture of Crimea secured the most valuable assets including its untapped gas reserves.

    3) Russia did not prepare its population for war in the weeks and months leading up to the invasion (and even days after the invasion). Which indicates it was the unexpected and last resort scenario for them.

    4) Their military preparedness appears to be extremely weak as can be observed from its deficiencies on the battlefield. Indicating the invasion to have been more adhoc and haphazard than a plan seriously considered for a long time.

    5) For Russia to "hold" Ukraine, either with its own forces or its support of a puppet regime would be extremely costly and perhaps impossible with its current military capability and resources.

    6) The 'last resort' invasion route, caused by the hardball politics of the US/UK/Zelensky appeared to not only surprise the Russian leadership but also Nato allies like Germany and France.

    Finally, while Russia has now invaded, and given that this I believe is their last resort course of action, I think they are making it up as they go along now. They tried to quickly overthrow Zelensky and or instill a quick shock to force compromise - "takeover" was not their objective. That this did not work out they are left fighting a full scale invasion scenario for which they really didn't anticipate or intend as their most likely scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭jmreire


    And the survivors of that bombing ( MOAB) stumbled and crawled out on their hands and knees, bleeding heavily from their ears and nostrils.....and possibly internally as well. For sure, there was not much fight left in them. When you think that these caves were buried under a mountain, it does not bear thinking about what they would do in a City.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,687 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Personally, I disagree. RT News is a money making business, and every money making Russian business should be shut down as far as possible. Not to shut down free speech, but ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    The house arrest of Medvedchuk is what started this invasion, last year.

    Medvedchuk was chairman of the largest opposition (pro russia) party. Zelenskyy banned his tv channels, froze all his assets (incl oil/gas pipelines) and put him on house arrest. The next day, Putin put 3k troops on the border. That started the build up.

    As you said, Medvedchuk is a Putin ally. Putin is godfather of Medvedchuks daughter, Daria.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Look if you want to beatify a group of extremists that turned up with Kalashnikovs and grenades and shot football ultras dead under organized police cover go ahead.

    If I had my way, no one would have died that day and it was all utterly reprehensible. But once again you're playing serious games trying to frame the pro-Russians as mere protestors.

    The real victims of that day were the innocents caught in the trade union building.

    The families of all the victims deserve justice and answers, and anyone who was involved in any deaths brought before a court of law - but tell the truth about what happened, not the version you want told.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,999 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Still bad mouthing ALL Russians I see.

    This is Putin war.

    Do you really think the population of Russia are in favour of Ukrainian men women and children being killed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    People in this thread won't like to hear it, so it's fake news!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I am in two minds about it to be honest. If you have identified a state or an ideology as your enemy then you're not obliged to let them speak.

    However, if you claim your position is one of liberty, free exchange of ideas and competition and the enemy is an evil, authoritarian regime that crushes dissent then outright bans on alternative points of view becomes more problematic. I saw a speech (from a couple of year back) by a Russo-American media figure (I can't recall his name) that apparently began his career as a journalist in the USSR. While in the USSR he encountered US media who were impressed by him and invited him to go on US TV to put across the Soviet side of the story to the US audience. He was able to go on US TV and put arguments forward that were then argued against by a US counterpart. He considered this to be a sign of strength, of the confidence the US had then.

    He remarked that it would be impossible today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    You are aged 14-40 in Russia.

    Twitter down.

    Facebook down.

    Snapchat down.

    Netflix down.

    Apple down.

    Instagram heavily restricted.

    Telegram heavily restricted.

    Online gaming heavily restricted.

    Major porn outlets are down.

    You can't buy stuff online.

    IKEA gone.

    Adidas gone.

    Nike gone.

    IKEA gone.

    Your debit card doesnt work

    Apple/Google pay doesn't work.

    Queues at the ATM.

    The last couple of independent TV/Radio just go shut down.

    You can't buy a flight abroad.

    You don't compete in international sport anymore.

    All those concerts you were looking forward to this summer are cancelled.

    You've bought a tickets for stuff and the refund hasn't arrived yet.

    Stock market closed indefinitely.

    Does Vladimir Putin really believe he is fooling them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,999 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Let’s hope the Russian masses overthrow this bastard soon.

    I don’t believe for once second war is what the Russian people want.

    They are being kept from the truth and those that find out and speak out are at risk of prison or worse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    I don't mind hearing it. It's just a longstanding Putin supporter making the same claims that every other Putin supporter is making.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Yurt, that is pathetic. You're asking me to extend you credit that you don't extend to anyone else. The fact that someone as partisan as yourself is even pretending to be concerned about that incident betrays how awful it was.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    That man is a kook. Look at his wikipedia page, he talks about "Muslim invaders" turning Europe into an Islamic state and that Mexicans crossing the southern border should be shot.

    Small wonder he found a home in the Trump White House and as a talking head on RT and Fox.

    Does it feel weird being in agreement with a kook like that PH?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,687 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    There is no argument for the Russian invasion. It's not about a point of view. Putin want's s what he want's and he intends to get what he want's.

    The whole NATO thing is just an excuse for the invasion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Well, A) they are better off without them tbh and B) Putin didn't take them away. "The West" did. If sanctions worked the way people thought they did the North Korean regime would have been overthrown decades ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 521 ✭✭✭DontHitTheDitch


    Great army guy, absolute nutcase though. Argues for illegal immigrants to be executed and martial law around the border with Mexico.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Name one thing from that list the North Koreans had before sanctions took them away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    However, his points were torn apart during later bulletins. Our Col. Has a history of this. Only time will tell.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh I hear you, though I'm of the position that America has gone down the U bend over the last couple of decades into an internally fractured state run by spin doctors and billionaires buggering their own people and Russia is an autocratic craphole living in the early 20th century buggering their own people. If America shuts down Russian media, or Russia shuts down American, I'd neither be surprised nor particularly care TBH. But I think Europe is and should be better than that.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Certainly there is no argument that will be heard in the west. Our governments are working hard to ensure that. But we aren't disturbed by that, whereas we expect our Russian colleagues will be disturbed by western media being repressed in Russia?

    There is a level of hubris there.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    All EU ports likely to be closed to Russian shipping fairly soon.

    Russian commodities shipped under other flag carriers, that's tbd.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I have no idea what the above is even meant to mean. I'll leave you to it, I've made my point and made it clearly.



This discussion has been closed.
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