Russia - threadbanned users in OP

The west is a bit of a shambles. It can be quite hypocritical too.

But nothing, nothing can justify this onslaught on a country that did not attack Russia in any way. Ukraine were not on the verge of joining NATO. Not anywhere near it. Ukraine gave up their nukes. What more of a conciliatory sign of peace would Russia need, than its neighbour giving up their nuclear protection?

Starting to look very ominous now for the Ukranian army. I think many of us (not every one here) have been routing for the Ukranian army, and were delighted that they have faired so well against the Russian aggressors.

But unfortunately it was only ever going to slow them down, I really hope now that they have a way out to retreat to western areas in Ukraine and maybe regroup somewhat.

As for Kyiv, ive no doubt that moscow will soon claim to be in control their and will be trying to help to "restore democracy back to Ukraine"

However I think Russia is going to face fierce resistance from many of the civilain population and it may come to the stage that they may need to find an out via the peace talks, they will end up with concessions for the breakaway eastern areas and will probably only agree to cast iron guarantees of Ukraine never joining NATO or the EU.

Maybe that might be enough for Ukraine to keep their Independence from any puppet Russian regime, unfortunately Ukraine will always be held at gunpoint from Russia if that comes to pass. But who knows, this is just my uneducated guess of what might happen.

I wasn't trying to set you straight. I said the storytelling is very different. The implication is that this could have been avoided by not dismissing Russian concerns over the last 30 years.

I didn't say I buy their storytelling any more than I buy our own side's storytelling. It's just interesting to hear th ther side give their views, but not as a strawman

That can't be true? If aircraft were taking off from Polish territory and attacking Russian positions that is an act of war by Poland.

I see there's mention of Russian "draft dodging" in this article, and seems to be reminiscent of a lot of Americans not wanting to go to Vietnam all those years ago.

Ukrainian tractor 'steals huge Russian tank' in footage shared by MP - Daily Record

Its an interesting one ,as long as they are Ukrainian aircraft and pilots there for Poland isn't attacking , but if Russia or Belarus decide to hit Poland article 5 gets triggered

They're the ones using the War in Ukraine on social media and and elsewhere to try and push the idea that the shortages and the high price of natural gas are all down to the current conflict and nothing to do with the ongoing gp policy of stopping gas importation and exploration.

It has already been recognised by practically everyone that counts in the EU (except our own gshites that is) that natural gas is needed at least in the short term to help stabilise the problems of renewable energy production which is woefully unreliable and which even more of the same renewables won't help with that unfortunately.

And what do our own green party do? Shut off the possibility all exploration of natural gas here and gloat about it Its quite clear the green party don't give a fcuk about anyone and that was made even clearer when two of own green party comrades MEPS decided to abstain from condemning Putins invasion of Ukraine.

of course , I cherry picked them - I was making a point to counter arguing the nonsense that Putin was the new Hitler and to highlight (I was highlighting....see....) that our friends in NATO (in particular Uk and USA) were far from the heroes we (and our media / Politicians) make them out to be .

I didn't go into stalin, mao or other CIA secret operations in South/Central America either.... or Somalia or Rwanda - plenty skipped over... I'm not listing conflicts in the 20th / 21st century - you can watch the history channel for that - cos I'd be here all week.

You may be right on this one.

Who knows what'll happen in the short-term, but in the long-term Putin has done irreparable damage to Ukrainian relations. Instead of bringing Ukraine closer into the Russian orbit, his actions will only push the country towards the EU. What's worst for Russia is that for the first time since I can't remember, Europe is completely united in support of Ukraine, even Orban's Hungarian government has backed Ukrainian membership to the EU.

My guess is that at some point Ukraine will become an EU member and this war will accelerate the process. It's hardly a difficult choice for the average Ukrainian to make. Do you go with the lads killing countrymen and destroying your cities, or the lads who are taking in your refugees and providing financial/military support?

They’re the types that sicken me the most- happy to leach off the opportunities and amenities of a democracy but still cheer lead the dictator in Moscow (that they chose not to live under).

Russia is a state like any other, there is no reason to think it’s ‘concerns’ about its sovereign neighbours or the expansion of NATO gives them a pretext for a new era of imperialism. They are no more entitled to act on real or imagined concerns with military force than Belgium or Botswana.

There’s an awful stench around here from the idea that Russia is some form of legitimate counterweight to US and EU power. It’s just a large banana republic and a rogue state.

Poland and NATO head Jens Stoltenberg just clarified that there will be no deliveries of arms by Poland into Ukraine, same for planes.

Its up to Ukrainians to move them over the border, NATO members will not.