Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Housing Madness

1131416181922

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    What city council are you talking about because we can easily look up their policy.

    Seeing as we are obliged to house refugees in this country it therefore is part of our housing needs.



  • Posts: 19,174 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    it's not pedantic to know what you are talking about. And speak the truth, not lies.

    if a family go through a system in order to get refugee status, then they are refugees. A story about a family faking their way to America 30 years ago is not relevant to refugee in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Why would proof that fake refugees exist interfere with your claim there is not such thing? You think the UN doesn't suffer from the same problems now and have a much better system? You do understand these refugees back then were sent to Europe too how do you know none were given the status here?



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well this is it.

    Another question we need to ask is do we want to end up like America in 20 years? Whereby we have trailer park type ghettos with shite houses etc in them.

    We should look into good quality approved fabricated homes now or else the above will happen. Its started already anyway. Shite quality log cabins in parents gardens etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Juran


    I never said the lady who got the council hoise was an asylum seeker or refugee. I presume she now has irish citizenship so is entitled to apply for houses like me, you and everyone else in the country.

    There are 3 council houses in our private estate, home to single mothers for the past 10+ years. Their kids were early teens when they moved in. One lady works part time, the other 2 dont work. No one objects to them getting a council house.

    But there needs to be a system for social or council house for working families on lower incomes. This category goes out to work everyday, pays taxes, adds to society. The current housing system seems to encourage people not to work so they move up the housing list. I might be wrong.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    We can never go the route of the US because we have way higher building standards and planning control. Trailer parks in the US have been around since the 40s and still not here so no need to exaggerate.

    The log cabins used by some to live in are all illegal to live in here. They don't match the building codes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    I'd be in favour of the councils going back to what they used to do and build council house estates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    Even the ones with the new suv outside on the drive.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    I know someone who couldn't get their new suv onto the bus so they just left it there. Said the social would get them a new one. True story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh



    This anecdotal experience posted above is just one example of the State directly and consciously propping up the market. The State also does this via the likes of HAP, funnelling money to housing bodies to elbow out individuals and usher them into an already tight rental market. RPZs put a floor on rents, hotels are being taken over and rented out by the State, no vacancy taxes are enforced, commercial landlords are not being forced to take a bath as of yet as the government hums and haws with its wfh legislation. Help the brickie is another way for the State to prop up the market. The list is huge but it is a fact that without the State our entire housing market crashes. Even looking at house building targets versus population growth estimates; the State will work to ensure that supply never meets demand. It is a con.

    If the State did not get so involved in our housing market, the whole thing would collapse. I think something like 60-80% from current levels could be on the cards if the State runs out of cash and can no longer prop up the market. I think where prices got to in 2012-14 is where they found their equilibrium.

    Small landlords are not the problem but of course they have been driven out by State actions to get them out in order to support larger players by reducing supply and funnelling workers into the institutionals' rental portfolios. Tenants and small landlords attacking each other is a great distraction for the State and the big players as I feel the fight should be individuals (ie small landlords and tenants/house buyers) versus the State/institutionals. I think if these opposing sides could come together they could force real change but they are being allowed to attack each other as this distracts them from the real enemy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Your post like the post you quote just isn't believable. Yours is just a mash up of theories without proof his being made up as it goes against the policies of the councils. His brother tells him something the builders said she said. Not really a reliable source of information and he has failed to say which council so it can be checked. She would have been entitled to emergency payments for appliances and would be told this. Do you really think she would ignore that and then spend her own money? It isn't true and easy to see why it isn't but makes for a good story along the lines of abandoning buggies and free cars



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    My belief in the post quoted is in the story about the council bidding €300k for the property as the council policy has been to buy up homes directly in order to hit social housing targets.

    And everything I have listed is an actual State action which contributes to propping up the property market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    So you don't believe the bit about her paying to refurbish the place? It is your picking and choosing of reality to make up your own narrative that creates your false impressions. HAP was made illegal to refuse as landlords weren't accepting it. That proves that it is not supporting the rental market rates along with the fact it is not enough for new rentals coming on the market proves the government are artificially keeping rents low on landlords by forcing RPZ rules.

    Have you proof landlords want HAP, aren't leaving the market and that RPZ doesn't keeps rent low on landlords? See there is a big difference on having an actual theory based on facts and just making up what you believe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    Stay out of hap anyway. Airbnb it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,682 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Good to see that people are being advised to look up the information. When I post about vacant homes, people seem to make up stuff in their heads about them all being wrecks in the back of beyond. Whereas the real detailed information is available, where 13 categories (plus Other) of Vacant are listed, of which only a very small number are Boarded Up Habitable. The Census does not record inhabitable wrecks. And the information shows that they exist in urban and rural.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Juran



    Prime example of what A. Dubh posted. I know this area, the house was worth approx 300k when it went on the market in late 2019. It was built in around 1998 - 2000 era, so not old, and up to modern building code. Probably needed decent cosmetic upgrade inside. In total the local council spent 600k on it, that includes retro fitting it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Do you think they'll leave their families stay abroad and live here alone.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    We take a tiny amount of refugees compared with country's like Germany . I don't understand how it costs 600k to retrofit one house , when a new tenant moves in the council installs new kitchen press, s makes basic repairs, paints the walls. The council needs to build more 1 bed units for single people



  • Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A decent cosmetic upgrade?

    They must have tiled the bathroom with tiles of solid gold to spend 300k on it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    It's my understanding that it was €600k in total, that's purchase price and renovation costs.

    On your point regarding more 1 bed units for single people, I'd never recommend this. Minimum 2 bed units as people could get sick down the line and need a carer to stay or maybe have children etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭sutrapall


    Gosh darn it! The people who accidentally profit from the housing crisis year upon year just keep making mistakes that boosts their accidental profit year upon year. The luck of it!

    A constant influx of immigrants due to accidentally formulated policy.

    A constant international reit market due to accidentally formulated tax and fdi policy.

    A constant undersupply of housing due to accidentally formulated building policy.

    So many accidents! It's just so very unlucky!


    Maybe if for another decade we rely on the same people's promises to undo their highly profitable mistakes something might change. Surely they deserve the benefit of the doubt by now.


    Perhaps if similar accidents were to happen to these peoples own homes, workplaces and investment properties then the accidents would cancel each other out? Perhaps then you'd see a turnaround in things that would make your head spin.


    It'd be awfully unlucky, but considering their every stated promise has had the opposite effect for nearly a decade, surely they would understand these fiery accidents, of all people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 948 ✭✭✭Juran


    Wonder why the social apartment model doesnt seem to be used in Ireland, or why does it not work here. I agree with the comment that we need 2 bed apartments to house the masses.

    I,m not talking about 20 story high rises the UK built in the 60's and 70's. If you visit the outskirts of european cities, like Germany, Holland, Spain, you see lots of social apartments, which are not gettos and they look well looked after. I know plenty of europeans who grew up in a 2-bed apartment provided by their state, and their family was grateful to have it, they respected the property and their neighbors.

    Its a quick and cost efficient way to house those who need it. Why does Irish state prefer to provide 3 to 4 bed houses with a back garden .. at 4 times the cost. Our friends in Europe could only dream of such a state provided house.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭sutrapall


    We don't have a supply problem. We have a demand problem.


    We have a carefully curated, artificially made demand problem.


    We have had REIT "policies" for near a decade that incentivises demand. Tax free situations for them...why? government rent-back schemes...why? To increase demand and profits for the boys.


    We have had immigration "policies" for near a decade that incentivises demand. A publicly stated plan to "grow" the population by 1 million...why? To increase demand and profits for the boys.


    The simple fact of the matter is this: the only reason more immigration and more bulk buying by REITs isn't happening to an even greater extent is BECAUSE the existing demand is so over the top.


    If home prices dropped by half tomorrow, there'd be a run on the country and we'd be back to square one within a year.


    If they quadrupled housing production, there would be an equal uptick in immigration and REITs to negate it all.


    This is no accident.


    That's the fact of the matter, and it isn't to do with eu migration policies because the majority of immigrants into the country are non eu, and it isn't to do with building more homes because they'll be bought out lock step, and it isn't to do with building differently, and it isn't to do with regulation, and it isn't to do with "employment gaps", and it isn't to do with anything they have been telling you year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year.


    A bunch of cute hoors and their bedfellows have been riding the hole off this country, telling you "this time next year...!" and it's well past time to cut out the BS and get to the heart of it. At this point, if they tell you something, it's guaranteed to be untrue. Lying sacks of shaisse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Simple question can you prove any of this? Incompetence explains it a lot easier than the government is really good at organising things secretly for their personal benefit. It seems quite silly to say we have a demand problem with no supply issues. I actually think we have enough supply due to occupancy rates we could redistribute housing but the government could never do it due to the public demands. You seem to think the government are the only people controlling housing and no public opinion is involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭sutrapall


    It is a simple matter of reasonable deduction.


    Motive: money. And so, so much of it. All that money goes into someone's pocket, all that rent money, all that commercial money, all that development money. The most understandable motivation of all time. Not to mention that there is a serious, serious conflict of interest with politicians being personally invested as landlords, and that's what is declared! How many have friends and family "indirectly" involved in property? I bet we'd all be shocked.


    Means: it's a government, with the powers of a government, tied indelibly to national and international entities that also love money, from REITs to NGO's. The government can both control the building environment and the regulation environment and immigration environment. What kind of a plank allows more and more people, year after year, into a worsening housing crisis, year after year? Allows the development of unaffordable housing year after year, from exhorbitant "international student accommodation" to luxury builds? Come on. They pull the strings on artificial scarcity of housing AND artificial demand.


    Opportunity: "the government" is practically every party involved, opposition or not. There is no opposition, all of them have their fingers in it, and there's plenty of money to go round. They've gotten away with it for 3 years on the trot with zero resistance, so why not 4, and then 5, and so on? Opportunity.


    Track record: years upon years upon years. A joke.


    That's my proof: deduction.


    Anyone who can dismiss all the above as sheer incompetence needs to check reality. An extremely profitable enterprise, readily controlled, with no negative consequence, for nearly a decade on the go...is fecking well NOT incompetence. On the contrary, it's exemplary in the demonstration of efficiently meeting goals.


    Akin to the police sitting in the cop shop, not lifting a finger, waiting for a murderer to hand themselves in before they even consider that the dead body with an axe buried in its head is "suspicious", it's just ridiculous.


    The motive, means, opportunity and track record are all there. The only incompetence is the general public believing this is a mistake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    So made up by you. Once we are clear you have no proof. You haven't cleared a motive. How are they personally making money?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54 ✭✭sutrapall


    Yes, it's all made up by me. There's no rhyme or reason to my logic at all. Sure.


    As said, the only incompetence on display throughout this entire fiasco is the incredible ignorance of the public at large.


    I'd see more critical analysis from a pineapple.


    "They're just thick!" Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very bloody believable. Off you go so, waiting for them to be un-thick while the money keeps flowing into pockets.



Advertisement