Story with Bowman?

Mr. Cats · 07-01-2022 12:58pm #1

I havent seen this mentioned elsewhere but Bowman seem to be in a bit of bother.

An absolute clusterf**k: Bowman Cycles speak out on supply chain issues after unhappy customers complain

Its mentioned there that “We’re not out of business currently…” and “We’ve basically got a deadline of 10-14 days” which was at end of November. Ominously their website is down. Anyone know the story?

CantGetNoSleep · 07-01-2022 1:40pm

Never nice to see a company in trouble but the issue with the wheels highlighted in that article, together with the lack of responses to customers, are unacceptable in my view, even when the company is struggling.

I've always fancied their bikes, just didn't buy one due to the thread on here.

Can't be easy for a smaller brand with current supply chain issues.

magicbastarder · 07-01-2022 2:47pm

how big was bowman? doesn't seem that they made the frames themselves, so did they do paint or assembly, or did they outsource that also?

CantGetNoSleep · 07-01-2022 4:12pm

I know they only recently (maybe 2019 at a guess?) started to do full bike builds which probably couldn't have been worse in terms of timing, going back to basics and just doing frames might be the way to go.

I'd actually love to invest in a cycling business, might drop them a note

Mr. Cats · 07-01-2022 4:23pm

Just had a look for their back story and the founder was a cycling journalist before setting the company up

https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/starting-scratch-story-behind-mason-cycles-snowdon-bike-bowman-cycles.html

fat bloke · 07-01-2022 4:30pm

Well "clusterfcuk" certainly describes my Bowman roller coaster. Still would be a shame to see them go to the wall as a result of external pressures outside of their control.

magicbastarder · 07-01-2022 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118434008#Comment_118434008

i'd be curious as to how the way brands come and go in cycling compares to other manufacturing industries. lots of bike companies don't do any actual manufacturing themselves - though that's similar to lots of other industries these days i guess.

CramCycle · 08-01-2022 12:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118434270#Comment_118434270

Sort of related but the motoring industry is going (has gone, there are a lot more Skodas on the road than their badge insinuates) the way of the bike industry and simply "rebadging" variations of the same car. Everyone seems OK with this though, unlike the bike industry, which everyone knows this is how it is done but people get snooty when it is said out loud.

08-01-2022 1:52am

Wait is a Skoda a VW or is a VW a Skoda now or a Seat :D

CantGetNoSleep · 08-01-2022 8:05am

I remember seeing a great video on here of how to start a wheel brand, think it was taking the piss out of Hunt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bb7eCgLbLI

I do think / hope that Bowman were doing a certain amount of design / engineering (as opposed to just rebadging some generic frame), given their niche in the alu frames market

magicbastarder · 08-01-2022 9:10am

Oh, I suspect they were designing the frames and having someone else build them to their spec, but based on fat bloke's experience they either weren't testing the product enough before putting them on sale, or there were serious QA issues during manufacture.

magicbastarder · 08-01-2022 9:55am

That said, unless you're a very big player, the only part (and to be fair, it's a fairly fundamental part) of a bike that a company would be able to make themselves is the frame.

nicksnikita · 08-01-2022 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437221#Comment_118437221

Maybe that’s because the price of a rebadged bike and a rebadged car is almost the same nowadays.

Mr. Cats · 08-01-2022 10:47am

I think that Bowman were designing the frames and then having them made in far east. They had just introduced a new frame model when Covid hit and judging by fatbloke’s experience and other stuff posted on facebook there were quality issues with the new frame model’s manufacturing. You could imagine how covid hitting could impact everything from staffing and materials at manufacturers to travel restrictions limiting communication between Bowman and the manufacturer. My reading of it is the frames were very delayed, and when they arrived the quality wasn’t to expected level.

Its sad to see as there’s no doubt the founder started out of a love for bikes and wanting to bring something fresh to the market. I don’t have the sense that it was a big commercial drive from him, more that he wanted to produce his idea of an ideal bike.

Mr. Cats · 08-01-2022 11:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118437820#Comment_118437820

I remember reading before that there’s about 5 manufacturers producing most of the carbon frames. I think Giant and Merida make their own but all the other manufacturers rely on external contractors (including Giant and Merida).

Bianchi are setting up a carbon frame manufacturing factory in Italy. It seems the gap in manufacturing costs between Far East and Europe is closing and presumably Bianchi will charge a premium price for the ‘handmade in Italy’ branding. It seems it’s not just manufacturing costs driving the decision though, also transportation cost have increased significantly, and Bianchi will have a lot more control over lead times, quality and avoid supply chain issues, on frame at least . It will put a lot of pressure on the likes of pinarello though as their premium pricing due to ‘heritage’ really isn’t justifiable the longer things are produced in Asia.

Jnealon · 08-01-2022 4:18pm

Quest Composites make trek and Canyon while Merida, Specialized and Cannondale are all made under the one roof.

This article explain it in great detail

https://www.bikebiz.com/cream-competent-or-cowboy-which-factories-are-faking-it/

Weepsie · 08-01-2022 5:05pm

3T are making there latest bike in their own factory. GCN did a behind the scenes on it.

Guerciotti used to make some it's frames in Italy, or at least had Deddecai make them for them in Italy and I presume some of the other brands did too

philten · 08-01-2022 6:04pm

Glad I got a spare hanger for my palace 3c! Tales of frame issues and now this. Few thousand km on mine though and no issues...so far. Sad to hear they have gone to the wall. Seems it was a messy end for all concerned.

Backn5mins · 26-02-2022 5:54pm

Bowman Cycles are no more. They were liquidated at the end of January 2022. It's a real shame, I've got a Palace:R with almost 10K km on it and its a real sweet bike. I would really like to know how to get my hands on a spare derailleur hanger - Anybody?

B B VELO LIMITED overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK (company-information.service.gov.uk)

68 lost souls · 01-03-2022 4:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118698294#Comment_118698294

You could buy a heap of spares off them if you win this auction, or somehow manage to fund out who wins it and buy one from them.

https://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/auction-catalogues/lambert-smith-hampton/catalogue-id-ed10716/lot-dfe52fbf-ee69-4421-8d63-ae37011a44a4

magicbastarder · 01-03-2022 4:59pm

maybe that's where Backn5mins could get a spare hanger!

hans aus dtschl · 01-03-2022 5:16pm

https://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/product/derailleur-hanger-437/

Palace R hanger.

I've gone through a few

magicbastarder · 01-03-2022 5:22pm

out of stock there, unfortunately.

CantGetNoSleep · 01-03-2022 6:00pm

Almost 100 frames in stock - must have been a case of wanting to sell full bikes

hans aus dtschl · 02-03-2022 5:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118714945#Comment_118714945

Speaking with someone reasonably well informed, that's where they'll be when they become available again.

Jimbo789 · 02-03-2022 8:47pm

Hambini is going to be doing a video on a Bowman frame.

cletus · 02-03-2022 9:25pm

I don't get the Hambini thing. He never seems to be happy with anything ever.

If everything was made to the tolerances he wanted, nobody could afford to buy bloody bikes

magicbastarder · 02-03-2022 9:43pm

he's an asshole, to be frank. he's gotten really personal about individuals on his channel before, i wouldn't give him the time of day let alone watch one of his videos.

Mefistofelino · 03-03-2022 10:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722500#Comment_118722500

The man is appalling. His fanbois aren't any better.

https://ridewriterepeat.com/2022/01/26/six-bloopers-of-being-a-woman-in-the-cycling-industry/

Mr. Cats · 03-03-2022 4:59pm

Wow - was it Hambini that started the abuse?

Mefistofelino · 03-03-2022 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726669#Comment_118726669

I believe so. He's had similar approaches in other fora such as weightweenies. When he's been challenged about the veracity of some of his test results or why he does not publish all the data & methodologies, he's become quite abusive (though nothing as bad as in the Michelle Arthurs-Brennan case). When the abuse of his critics fails he has, on occasion, resorted to claims of racism by posters & moderators.

Technically, he appears to be quite good. Its just a pity it seems to be packaged with weapons-grade bellendery.

Weepsie · 03-03-2022 9:30pm

Hambinis trying to sell something quite expensive that he makes, hence why he goes in so hard.

He's using a bit of his knowledge and combining it with jargon and good old fashioned snake oil sales patter to make people think they need his stuff, and it's only for the most anal of people anyway.

CramCycle · 04-03-2022 7:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722500#Comment_118722500

I particularly dislike his go to "some people don't like the way I talk because I have Autism schtick". It's all BS to get away with being an absolute scumbag of the highest order. He is scum and in a more just world would be facing a judge, a fine and some jail time for his behaviour. I had watched a few of his videos in the past but it's all BS and he seen a way to sell overpriced stuff to people willing to pay for overpriced stuff, and then made the leap that a lot of these were scumbags and therefore being a scumbag would help this.

gmacww · 29-03-2022 5:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118722413#Comment_118722413

I remember seeing one video he did where he said the frame inside and out was a work of art. It’s the only video he ever seemed to be happy. I checked the frame online and the cheapest I could find was €8.5k. For the FRAME. ON SALE!!!!

Plastik · 04-04-2022 8:30pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTDQ9vtoxTo&t=1s

Hambini video out today.

Regardless of your opinion on him, it's worth a watch for anyone that has a Bowman. Surprisingly objective and factual by his previous standards.

ARX · 05-04-2022 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880545#Comment_118880545

I don't know anything about welding, but the video has quite a few comments saying that it's rubbish. Any welders on here who can comment?

cletus · 05-04-2022 2:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883383#Comment_118883383

I've done a bit of welding, and it looks about as good as the quality of my welds (read: shîte)

There definitely shouldn't be pinholes, and the bead is very inconsistent, which probably means there isn't full penetration.

I'll show some stills to a friend of mine who fabricates motorcycle frames, exhausts, tanks etc.

Plastik · 05-04-2022 3:01pm

The closest I've ever some to welding something it to watch someone else do it on youtube. He does show welding on a specialized frame by way of comparison and the difference is significant, even to someone that hasn't a clue what they're looking at.

cletus · 05-04-2022 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118883917#Comment_118883917

Response was the welds are poor

hesker · 05-04-2022 3:28pm

Speaking of welding there was a very good programme on the bbc tv last week about a company making folding bikes.

Think it was this one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07pmyd6

Alexzont · 05-04-2022 3:35pm

My bowman frame cracked at the weld down around the bottom bracket, so I can attest that the welding is shite.

Large bottle small glass · 05-04-2022 3:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884216#Comment_118884216

As a young lad I worked in Medite in the late 90's during a maintenance shut down, where there was two rival mechanical contractors working side by side.

My foreman was walking past the work of his rival and threw his eye over the welding and said "it'll be fine I suppose, nothing a coat of lumpy paint wouldn't fix"

cletus · 05-04-2022 5:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118884276#Comment_118884276

"Grinder and paint,

Make me the welder I ain't"

Ok, I had only gotten about 20 minutes into the video. I've now gotten to the point where he has cut the frame up. I don't need to send stills of that to my mate. That welding is awful. It would be awful by amateur standards. I can weld better than that

fat bloke · 05-04-2022 11:17pm

Jeez. I'm glad I got my refund before it all went t1ts up.

gn3dr · 05-04-2022 11:26pm

Just watched it myself. I do a bit of aluminium on various bits of cars and motorbikes and I have to agree, the quality of tube notching and welding on that frame is diabolical. It highlights a bit about the links between lots of websites / magazines / reviewers etc. all talking up products based n who knows what really, best buddies, backhanders, sponsorship etc....

CantGetNoSleep · 06-04-2022 6:53am

He is entirely correct about the cycling media & YouTubers - it is so rare these days to see a negative review (and almost impossible with the British brand / British media combination). On a very rare occasion they might take off one star due to the price but that is all

CramCycle · 06-04-2022 10:26am

Call me an annoying left wing, but I won't give him the clicks after he hunted down that journalist, stalked her and made threats. Every click is money in his pocket so unfortunately, I'll have to figure out from the comments here that the welding was sh1te rather than watch his rubbish for 20 minutes to say sometihng you could cover in under 5.

ARX · 06-04-2022 10:29am

From Neil Webb's LinkedIn page it appears that he went from brand manager and technical writer to bike designer. How does someone with apparently no significant technical or engineering background start designing frames?