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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,332 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    A lot of this goes back to the 2008 financial crisis which damaged so many people and most have yet to recover from that. Events like that have long term consequences and I think we are still seeing the knock on effects play out today.

    I agree it is alarming to think that an incompetent corrupt buffoon like Trump could actually win again.

    It's up to the establishment to make things better for ordinary people. Then they won't be turning to individuaks like that in protest or otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,914 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Its bemusement not outrage was a recurring quote on that thread.

    It wasn't bemusement though, it was bile and it was outrage, quite similar to this thread really.

    An outlet for certain posters to vent their anger on an almost daily basis.

    That "poster" as you refer to him was like the Pied Piper.

    Also - Who says anyone here are "Libs"?

    Not many Liberals here, Liberal' shares a root with 'liberty' and can mean anything from "generous" to "loose" to "broad-minded."

    People who demand you think a certain way are not Libs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Debub




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,019 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It's up to the establishment to make things better for ordinary people.

    No argument there either, but we don't see that do we. What has gone on in the UK over the last 6 years in particular has been shameful and even the announcements today about removing final covid legal restrictions while stopping the provision of free tests is more of the same.

    And the reason why this is facilitated, and why Donald in the US is is because of outlets such as Fox and others who are pushing their agenda.

    Fox simultaneously have their own vaccine mandate, encourage their viewers to not get the vaccine and to push back against mandates and then blame Biden for not having achieved better vaccination rates.

    None of this is a coincidence or hard to see and yet they get a pass for doing so. Not calling out those who seek to get to the same situation in the UK is only something people with their own ulterior motives would do.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    People who demand you think a certain way are not Libs.

    Like people who push overt nationalism and love for 'the Flag'? What are they?

    Post edited by Tell me how on


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’d love to know what “hard left media” exists. It would be right up my alley.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,974 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    There is usually a couple of oul' lads outside the GPO selling something like The Morning Star. Perhaps that is what they mean?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I suppose you could count An Phoblacht then as well. Fair enough. We’re really winning the battle for the minds of the youth.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,974 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    They all look like they could belt out The Internationale at the drop of a hat.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,807 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    I think you're right that Trump was a protest vote for many. I also think that when he never seems to get punished for breaking any laws it's just an example of how there's a separate set of rules for those with enough money. It'll make people even more cynical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 953 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    I love the argument of "I'm tired of having that liberal crap rammed down my throat"

    What happened to "In my day we wouldn't get insulted like those lefty snowflakes"?

    And maybe we are tired of having that right-wing crap rammed down our throats and we are forced to act because of it? Are you upset because you can't say the N Word anymore? Are you triggered because a woman told you to cram your "make me a sandwich" joke? Because you think minorities and the LGBTQ community have gotten a bit too lippy for your liking?

    As for the protest vote, eating a sh*t sandwich because you don't like the food is not helping you.

    And complaining because we make fun of right-wingers, whatever happened to free speech?

    It's amazing how fast these tough, rugged people who "can take a joke" crumble into a blubbering mess because a leftie was mean to them.

    Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’d like to thank this more than once.


    Free speech advocates who just want to tell it like it is. But who are also outraged that people are mean to them.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    How many people stopped posting here saying it’s just an echo chamber? Effectively saying I’m not posting here because people don’t agree with me. Always the victims, always someone to blame.



  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Also let's just remember there's no substantial left in the US in politics. So I'm not sure what left they're turning their backs on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭arthursway


    So is he in jail yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,980 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Actual investigations tend to require following the law, interviewing people, reviewing thousands of documents etc. They take time when they're done right.

    They tend to require a lot more than just getting a crowd to chant "LOCK HER UP!"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,616 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    And we’ve back to this shite.


    What do you think about him taking classified information from the White House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,333 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    This is the logic of his klan:

    • Not "Is he right or wrong?"
    • Not "Did he do these things or not?"
    • Not "Is he harmful to his country and party?"

    I will break it down into a meme because you know that's what his knan love: A nice slogan that they can chant like "The Leader Is Good. The Leader Is Great" I mean "Lock her up" and "Let's Go Brandon". So I present to you the new klan meme


    Untitled Image




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    I'd like to actually thank kermit for the last few posts. I don't agree with them but they are well articulated and give points for debate. Not simply some regurgitation of some old, debunked fox-lies or resorting to "owning the libs" with variations of "Let's go, Brandon".

    Kermit will not agree with my opinions below but that's what a free and open debate should be.


    Regarding this post, I agree in general that Trump was at least partially, a protest vote: Clinton was the wrong choice. A person not liked outside her own party (And also had problems within). Had she been voted in for two terms then US politics, supposedly the greatest in the world, would have had presidents from 3 families for 36 years: GHW Bush, B Clinton, B Clinton, G Bush, G Bush, B Obama, B Obama and potentially H Clinton, H Clinton. (And maybe feared M Obama M Obama after that).

    So there was definitely an appetite to move away from the same old names.

    That and apathy from democrat voters certainly would help explain Trump's win.

    However you cannot deny that Trump and the GOP have divided the country greatly. You may blame groups like Black Lives Matter and elements of the organisation are concerning but you cannot deny they also came from a place of not being listened to.

    So instead of engaging with, working with, hell, evening LISTENING to groups like these, the GOP invited a pair of people who waved guns at them to their AGM like conquering heroes.

    Instead of denouncing White Supremacists who organised what was basically a KKK rally, which resulted in the death of a counter-protester, Trump (And therefor the GOP) said there were fine people on both sides. I'm sorry but I do NOT consider a White Supremacist to be a "Fine Person"

    Instead of condemning hate groups such as the Proud Boys he (And therefor the GOP) tells them to stand back and stand by.

    Instead of helping to identify rogue elements within their supporters the GOP disavow member of their own party and state that these people who stormed the Capitol Building were engaging in valid political discourse.

    Instead of having their polsters and analysts and number crunchers and policy-makers investigate why they lost the 2016 election, they push a false narrative of a stolen election. A known lie that lead to death and further division. Even the general GOP party is FINALLY moving away from this false narrative.

    You say that Trump voters simply wanted to be heard. Well they have been heard loud and clear now. They have been heard to be supportive of white nationalists. They have been heard to support voter suppression. They have been seen and heard to support and engage in voter intimidation. Driving around in pickup trucks with guns and flags. We have seen that elsewhere. They have been heard to be violent terrorists.

    Note, I am NOT talking about GOP voters although, as I have said before, every day the GOP does not denounce Trumps statements, they condone them and embrace them as GOP policy). But the GOP seems to be selling its soul in pursuing the racist vote, in pursuing the homophobic vote, in pursuing the conspiracy theorists. In pursuing party-members who refuse to engage with, debate with and yes, maybe compromise with other people/parties. Even to their own detriment.

    And if fox news is the largest news station in America how can they claim to not be heard? How can someone be the biggest kid on the block and not part of the "mainstream Media"?

    So yes, I believe that Trump's vote was partially a protest vote but now everyone knows what he stands for and what the GOP is willing to embrace. Is this still the voice these people want the world to hear?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,922 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I completely agree Grover.

    A vote for Trump in 2016 was in large part a statement of "Let's give him a go , could he really be any worse than what we've had?" and as such I'd have a certain willingness to give people some degree of a pass there.

    Although , the frustrations felt by those hit hardest by the 2008 crash should have been aimed at the Republicans as it was they that were in power when all the damage was done to the economy - But as is always the way , the party in power during the clean-up takes the hit as they are the ones overseeing the fall-out.

    Voting for Trump again in 2020 and continuing to support him and his lies into 2022 is absolutely an "eyes wide open" action and as such deserves no such "pass". He is no longer an unknown quantity, the entire world knows and understands exactly who he is and what he stands for.

    His absolute disdain for anyone and everything that doesn't benefit him personally is clearly visible in his each and every action - How anyone could view him as worthy of any form of leadership let alone governance of the largest economy on earth is beyond baffling to me.

    tl;dr -

    Trump voters in 2016 , kinda understand where you were coming from.

    Trump voters in 2020 and beyond - You are either painfully deluded or you are an actively awful human being.

    I will caveat that a little though - The utterly broken 2 party system in the US does mean that a large cohort of people are forced to choose someone that they don't like as they really don't have viable alternatives (although they could abstain!!)

    So - When I talk about "Trump Voters" above I am talking about the perhaps 15-20% of voters (and perhaps 50%+ of GOP voters) that actively support the man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭arthursway


    So anyone who doesn't agree with you politically is a terrible human being?

    You do realise Donald Trump is polling better than Biden at the moment?

    You do realise that Trump is favourite to win 2024?

    This thread really is Mordor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    The grown-ups are attempting to debate here. Kermit posted some interesting and well considered thoughts (And again, I'd like to thank kermit for engaging in debate) and we are responding in a grown-up manner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭arthursway




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    If so then we have replied to authur in an arthur-type way and kermit in a kermit-type way.


    If this is the case, you really post and then thank your own posts? Oh dear.


    Posting under multiple names? Well, it does fit the trump voter pattern I suppose. Vote/Post...

    Post edited by TheIrishGrover on


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,922 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Well done for missing the point entirely.

    This is about support for Donald Trump , not the GOP or any particular political ideaology. especially as Trump doesn't have any particular political ideology.

    Trump doesn't believe in anything other than himself , he will say and do anything that puts money in his pocket or makes him feel good about himself.

    If he thought that he could make more money or garnish more power for himself by being a Democrat (or anything else) he would jump ship in a heartbeat, he couldn't care less about being a Republican or anything else.

    Donald Trump is an awful human being and anyone that thinks he is anything other than a narcissistic charlatan, is as I have said either sadly deluded and woefully mislead or they themselves are just the same.

    Also - Trump is absolutely categorically NOT the "favourite to win in 2024" , yes he's the front-runner to win the GOP nomination , but all of the current polling (for what that's worth 2.5+ years away) has Biden beating Trump in a head to head Election , but losing by a large margin to a "Generic Republican". That's how utterly toxic Trump is with Independents and swing voters.

    So if the GOP actually want to win in 2024 they should be dumping Trump right away , but they won't because they are terrified of him in the primaries because of that deluded/awful cohort of people that currently hold a "casting vote" in GOP voting circles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,616 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    What do you think about trump taking classified information from the White House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,980 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I would also agree that it's utterly pointless talking about polls regarding an election in 2+ years. A significant reason why Trump lost in 2020 was his shambolic response to Covid, which really only started in the US in early 2020.

    When Trump faced a true challenge and his country needed real leadership, he downplayed the virus and delayed efficient action. And after that focused more on his own image and public standing rather than what was best for the country.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    After 4 years of polls mean nothing once again polls mean something.



This discussion has been closed.
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