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Unhappy with owning an EV in Ireland



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1

    Sounds like this thread should be called “Unhappy to own an EV in Ireland”. As a EV owner for 5+ years I’ve had 3 EVs and soon be moving onto EV #4. Initially it was the Leaf + diesel due to range issues, then once range and price points improved we became a 2 EV household two years ago. I get it that EVs don’t suit everyone, especially if the only car in the house as I remain stuck to my original stance that the public network is not fit for purpose.

    But range/price point was the big issue years ago, now you can get a 400km range EV for mid 20s and luxury 350kms range EV for mid 30s which negate these points.

    Why does everyone ignore the used market as an entry point.

    I know there are apartment and terraced etc owners out there, an EV will never probably suit ye guys but there are also the niche folk with EV and PV that will be charging their cars for free (after initial investment) for 6/7 months of the year, look to that whenever possible and recognise that driving around in ICE is unsustainable in terms of resource depletion and health impact.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭MightyMunster

    Just on the weather, not sure where in Ireland you are but Dublin gets less rain and less rainy days than Amsterdam.

    The setup of childcare not being colocated with schools is an example of bad planning on our part.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,436 ✭✭✭zg3409

    I am not pro diesel, but we regularly (once a month) drive Dublin Donegal 300km, non stop, mainly as the 2 kids will sleep for the full 3 & 1/2 hour drive on a Friday. Then we repeat the trip back on the Sunday or Monday. Stopping now mid trip is a disaster as kids wake up straight away. Long term when children are older we will stop mid trip.

    I know a Niro should make that trip relatively easy, and if we had a home charger at the other end we could return with 100%.

    We are a 2 car household, one EV. I am considering going to 2 car EV, but the cost benefit is on the boundary. Spending 34k for a Niro when existing car looks better and no real fuel savings will result does not make great financial sense. We will go 2 BEV eventually, something like used ID4 when it makes sense maybe in 3 years. I want to avoid public charging at all costs.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,768 ✭✭✭Old diesel

    For me the wider Irish official incompetence that leads to a resignation that the

    "public charging will never be right" needs tackling.

    Because it also impacts many more areas then EVs.

    We had in this thread talk of public transport not being workable. Which again comes back to the same incompetence.....

    The question has to be - what does fit for purpose public charging network look like....

    For me

    1) should be something you are happy to use even 100 percent of the time if needed.

    2) charging infrastructure in all car parks so you can charge while doing other things. (With power management strategies in place)

    3) as a starting point - if an area is big enough for a petrol station then it needs public charging suited to that areas needs.

    4) top of the range repair and maintenance of network.

    5) consider developing dedicated charging sites with excellent on site facilities - ie Braintree in UK.

    6) existing petrol stations could be used wherever possible

  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]

    A big unaddressed concern is the cost of repairs out of warranty. When the motor bearing goes, and it does, what is the cost to repair? I have seen mention of $15,000 for Tesla

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,768 ✭✭✭Old diesel

    In an Irish scenario I think we would need to look at things like....

    1) mobile charging delivered from a mobile battery in a van or a bigger battery on a truck. This can be DC charging so a car is turned around quickly.

    2) in areas of less demand we can use something like a freewire Boost charger. This charger has a 160 kwh battery built in. Takes power from grid at 22 kw when no one charging.

    Can then output to an EV at up to 120 kw.

    3) a nuclear option is the battery swop idea - Chinese EV maker Nio offer this for their customers in China.

    Final point.

    Lucid have an EV that recently did 500 miles at 70 mph on one charge. This car can charge to 50 percent (250 miles) in 16 minutes if charger can do 350 kw charging.

    Battery size on this car is 118 kwh.

    A lot of work is being done on EV tech and the big limiting factor for EVs in Ireland is official incompetence not the cars or wider tech.

  • Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭Mr Q

    Why would you be so sure the motor bearings will go? And there is no way it would cost 15k to change them.

    All the independent garages will have to move towards working on EVs, the cost of repair for popular ones will not be too excessive.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭kanuseeme

    All independent garages are not going to invest in training and equipment until warranties start running out, which is starting to happen now with leafs, take hyundai, tesla and kia the next year or 2, so now you have people who might buy and asking these questions about replacement batteries and motors, only information they have is a google search on cost of a tesla motor for 15000$,

    So the garage now has a choice, spend god knows what on the hope that some of the few early cars start breaking down or just wait and see, if the cars start giving trouble and the repair bill is expensive ask yourself this question, Who is going to take the chance on buying a 2nd hand EV ?

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,436 ✭✭✭zg3409

    Garages already work on cars they know little about, and don't have specialized tools for. There are also back street specialists for many brands and diesel specialists etc. Already garages are working on hybrids with large number of high mileage taxis. The reality is EV are far simpler than ICE. Actually swapping a whole battery has been completed by Irish DIYers, and in one case they swapped every battery cell, which required no computer software magic, just physically swapping batteries over. Replacing a bearing is relatively easy, every garage has bearing pullers and hydraulic presses for installing them. In fact I would say reluability of an old EV is higher than that of an equivalent ICE. Sure it's a risk of driving any car out if warranty but no one will be buying a whole new battery from a main dealer, same as no one buys a whole new engine from a main dealer for an out of warranty ICE. You do hear horror stories about old EVs with strange faults, but anyone who drove old ICE know they give lots of problems. Many old EVs are valued a lot more than equivalent ICE for good reason.

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog

    Try getting a quote for an engine replacement from any main dealer, based on this logic nobody will ever buy a car again.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭kanuseeme

    I searched for ford focus replacement engine, 4 adds with pictures, ranging from 1 k to 2 k.

    I searched for tesla replacement motor, no adds, scrolled down, I see one forum entry of a guy who replaced it him self 7000$ bought from a scrap dealer.

    Make what you want of that.

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,432 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus

    imagine owning a PHEV you have both issues to worry about 😮

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog

    What was your quote from the Ford main dealer?

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭kanuseeme

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo

    Any idea where you seen this?

    We are just starting to see the early Model S coming out of warranty (2014 Cars) so might be useful for future owners.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Ireland is cold. Ireland is always cold.

    Battery Management systems constantly seeing the battery is cold and throwing kWhs of heat in to the battery to heat it up is always going to be unsatisfactory.

    Irish government need to put out tenders for HPCs on the main road networks. Just enough carrot for someone to build the damned chargers and no more. No ongoing rent seeking. Whoever wins them builds HPCs. I don't care how many charging cards this means you need to carry with you so long as the HPCs are in place. The market can pull them toward unified charging model later.

    Irish Government are paying EVs lip service if they continue to ignore HPC network.

  • Registered Users Posts: 64,341 ✭✭✭✭unkel

    Tesla motor $15k, has 8 year unlimited mileage warranty and a life expectancy of about 1,000,000km

    BMW M5 engine $30k, has 2 year warranty and a life expectancy of about 250,000km

    The former is faster, far less likely to go wrong ever and costs 90% less to run and maintain. Now you know why people are very quickly switching to pure EVs. And why this bothers workers unions in the car industry so much...

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog

    But nobody ever buys a BMW because Ford Focus engines go cheap on donedeal.

  • Registered Users Posts: 64,341 ✭✭✭✭unkel

    The old 1.6d, eh? Many of them died just after the initial warranty. Friend of mine used to buy the cars with the wrecked engine and rebuild them to sell on for a substantial profit 🤣

  • Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty

    +1 for this and make it tender criterion for credit card reader on each HPC.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭MightyMunster

    If you think a Leaf has the same range or charging speed or options as a Model 3 you're deluded 🙄

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,729 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling

    Check his posting history on here. You'll only need the last 2 words of your post.

  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭PaulJoseph22

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo

    Will you give over with your BMW fanboy posts. Your constant Tesla bashing because “seemly” your brother had a Model 3 that the front bumper fell off. Again “seemly”.

    You post that a euro built car is the only way to go, yet your favourite thread (BMW i4) shows how bad the bmw is built too 🤷‍♂️ Tesla to see your now promoting Tesla cars built in Berlin.

    You constantly post bmw advertisements “Ultimate Driving Machine” and “premium” quality, you’d swear you are the only person in the world that has ever owned a bmw.

    There are many posters in this EV forum that spent their life with fast cars, performance cars, sports cars, luxury cars, yet you think your the only one, your comments are laughable at this stage.

    I thought I was the only one that noticed it but I’m glad to see other posters now calling you out on it.

    You give out about the charging network but don’t explain that you are not in the ROI so your experience is flawed Ed when comparing against users of EV’s here in Southern Ireland.

    We all love or loved BMW’s, I have had more BMW’s that you have had posts on here but I’m the first to admit they are now bean counters. They are not the premium brand you make them out to be and the bmw thread is proof of that with the way the i4 owners have been treated with their cars stranded on the side of the road and being told to get a taxi home, bye. Sure, that’s premium brand right there!

  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭PaulJoseph22

    You know nothing about me or how many BMW’s I have owned.

    Don't tell me what I can or can not post.

    There’s always the ignore button.

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo

    If you post BS on a Public forum, you will be called out on it. Full stop.

  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭PaulJoseph22

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo

    And that’s exactly the type of comments that show your true BS colors.

    People are calling you out you have t actually called anyone else out with anything other than “right back at you”.

    Put some thought into your posts and leave out the bmw fanboyism and people might actually listen and take on board your comments.

    It must be tough to hear other posters confirming that the Korean cars are as good as the BMW ‘s now a days 🤣 But that’s the truth. That’s the truth on the ground for people that actually have the cars.

    Your rose tinted glasses from a PHEV that does 20km doesn’t give you the right to critique other brands that are built as good and laugh in the face of that.

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,451 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm

    I honestly don't know how this has been allowed to carry on. Obvious trolling and no repercussions. Ruining the forum on regulars and derailing threads where potential owners are asking genuine questions.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭PaulJoseph22

    Yes I agree, the offensive name calling (I will refrain from using the term as it is highly offensive to my family, my mum is German) and personal remarks by others, whilst I am just commenting on car brands.