Unhappy with owning an EV in Ireland

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: ESB eCars.

PaulJoseph22

Irelands charging network is a disgrace.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622284#Comment_118622284

It is, but just don’t say that to the lobby group or they’ll get really upset.

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622307#Comment_118622307

And it’s the reason that I and many won’t buy an EV. My brother has one and he regrets buying it.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622341#Comment_118622341

I think you’ve mentioned that once or twice alright 😊

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622565#Comment_118622565

And I’ll mention it again, in the vain hope that things might improve.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622613#Comment_118622613

I like boards.ie, I’ve been using it for a very long time but I’m under no illusion that posting here will affect government policy or the thought process inside a semi-state. The best I could hope for is that I either learn something or that I influence someone’s opinion by way of reasoned argument but unless Anna from eCars is lurking here, posting ad nauseum about your brothers EV woes is unlikely to achieve anything. And since this is an EV forum, it’s likely that most people here will be EV owners so you’re unlikely to influence our opinions either.

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622640#Comment_118622640

Last time I checked Boards was not an EV forum.

Feel free to scroll past my posts or put me on ignore. I have a PHEV, this is also a hybrid thread…,

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622683#Comment_118622683

You're posting in the EV forum on Boards?

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622703#Comment_118622703

EV and HYBRID

eddhorse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622718#Comment_118622718

Jasuz do you have to go to every "EV and Hybrid" thread to complain about your brothers car?

liamog

Mod Note: This forum is not an echo chamber of only pro-ev opinions, but I do expect a higher quality of conversations than general posts of "EV bad", particularly when they are dotted around other threads

NIMAN

The charging infrastructure is poor, but we'd hope it would get better investment going forward. Based on what, I don't know! Government hasn't exactly got a good track record up to now.

But I would say that if you can't do the majority of your charging at home, then I wouldn't advise anyone to buy a full EV at present.

Green Finers

I don’t drive an EV and probably won’t until my current petrol becomes uneconomical to keep maintained or on the road. Which will be a very long time please God.

After which I will buy a hybrid petrol. The best of both.

Green Finers

One thing that has to change is the enforcement of spaces.

They need to be more ubiquitous, spacious and rigidly enforced.

Not only have I seen diesel cars plonked in them, I’ve also seen EVs parked there without charging. The thick owners must think they’re dedicated spots for EVs regardless of whether they’re charging or not.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628754#Comment_118628754

Hybrid Petrol isn't really a best of anything, my attitude to hybrids in 2022 is to ignore them as a technology. That doesn't mean avoid buying one at all, but it's not a factor I would consider when picking between two cars. Your behaviour doesn't change when buying a hybrid, you're still filling a car with petrol at pumps and driving it around.

If you look to buy a PHEV instead, they can work for people who are scared of making the switch to a full EV, but be aware that they only work if you are able to charge them every night at home. In my experience PHEV owners spend more time plugging in cars than those who own a full EV. People who can honestly asses their motoring requirements will often find that a BEV would suit them, with a minimum amount of change, they concentrate on the 4 times a year they might do a long trip and use it to justify either a PHEV purchase or a car with a much bigger battery that they very rarely use.

The charging situation is much better in Ireland than many people give it credit for, the trick is to suck up the extra cost on an Ionity charge for those 4 times a year. I've paid about €60 more to use an Ionity charger in the last year instead of paying €1,000's more to buy a car with a bigger battery.

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628772#Comment_118628772

Yeah I have a PHEV and rarely rely on the network unless I'm off on holidays down the country somewhere. I'd have absolutely no issue with charging for the space after a certain amount of time. I've been in smaller towns for over a week and have struggled to get a spot to charge the car because someone with an EV has parked up for the day (or more in some cases!) so I'm left doing the shorter runs around the area on petrol instead of EV. I'd loose my mind if I had a full EV.

Dakota Dan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622640#Comment_118622640

It’s about as effective as going on your local radio station to rant about the government.

SteM

We got a Leaf 24 and lasted a few years with it. Got rid of it last September and replaced it with an Ioniq PHEV. The Leaf was grand when we were doing anything local but we found ourselves wanting to holiday or do day breaks in Ireland a lot, for obvious reasons, and the charging structure just broke our hearts. Chargers broken, busy, ICEd etc, it was workable for us. PHEV works well for us as a one car family I feel.

bertiebomber

I have a small diesel car when i can no longer afford to run it when they charge 10 / 20 euro a litre then i will resort to a pony & trap or a bike. No ev for me as there are no chargers in my area.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629087#Comment_118629087

Where do you live?

PaulJoseph22

Hybrid PHEV works for some people, I’m not scared of going full EV, but I look around where I live and into the north of Ireland at the charging network and that swiftly makes my mind up.

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629068#Comment_118629068

I don’t know how many times, I’ve experienced the same, people seem to just leave the EV there for the day with no thought of others. Thankfully I’ve the petrol as a back up.

The few times I’ve found one that works and is unoccupied, as soon as I get the message it’s fully charged, I’ll move my car within 5 to 10 mins, but vast majority don’t bother and indeed I’ve seen people on here giving other tips on how to get the full day parking for free…..

jusmeig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629314#Comment_118629314

If you never had to use the charging network in Ireland, what would be your other reasons for not driving an EV, or its just this?

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629364#Comment_118629364

I wonder how much your PHEVs reliance on constantly charging is clouding your experience of the charging networks. The charging network needs a massive improvement for people who can't charge at home, but for those who can, their use of the public charging network is likely 3 or 4 times per year.

My car only has a 200km range, with my normal usage it needs to be charged at home once a week. The few times a year I do longer journeys I'll pay extra to hit a multi charger site. I value my time waiting for a charger more than the €16 extra for using Ionity over a single eCars charger.

mailforkev

I have loads of public chargers locally (few DC, many AC) but I still wouldn’t have bought an electric car unless I had the ability to charge at home.

Not sure if controversial or not but I also think that most public chargers should be for full EVs only and off limits to PHEVs. One really needs them, the other doesn’t.

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629671#Comment_118629671

Nope, but it is influenced by my sibling who drives an EV but borrows my PHEV while travelling around the northern part of the island. When he borrows my car I have to drive his EV….. Have you owned a PHEV, you’re very negative about them…,

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629068#Comment_118629068

Was it just the charging network that made you move from full EV to PHEV? Any other reasons?

eastie17

I dunno, I'm sure there is alot of joy from those who have already invested in EVs given the current price of fuel but the overall model, in Ireland at least doesn't make a lot of sense:

1/ We already have a grid that is struggling we are told, where is all this extra electricty going to come from 2. How are the government going to replace all of the excise and VAT they get from fuel sales? 3. Time to charge, similar to some Nordic countries unless there is an abundance of charging stations wont we end up with long queues when "filling up" takes 20 to 30 minutes?

irishgrover

I average 40,000k per year on EVs (originally a 28kW battery and now a 64kW)

I use the fast charging network very regularly and have never had a significant issue. However

1. I have home charging
2. The routes I primarily drive are very well served - allowing for redundancy in charging. IE if the charger I goto is broken occupied there is another one 20 minutes away
3. I don't live in Dublin - I live in a rural area (south galway)

If not for 1, 2, and 3 above I might be unhappy, but I'm not, I'm very happy.

I would not buy an EV if I did not have #1 and #2 and I'd be less likely if #3 was an issue

Ubbquittious

Soon you'll have to fill your EV with virtual petrol to combat falling road tax revenue & there will be a GPS monitoring you everywhere you go.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629927#Comment_118629927

We've a 2.5 year old 64kW EV with 80k on it now. Daily driver for the work commute of 130km.

We of course have home charging and for the few trips to Cork/Kerry/Mayo have only spent about EUR 200 on charging at eCars/EasyGo stops so far.

So they do work very well as long as you can do the majority of your charging at home and plan your other trips beyond that!

bertiebomber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629142#Comment_118629142

I live very remortely miles from anywhere so i reckon two Connemara ponies on my mothers old trap will be the cheapest of all as i have plenty of grass to re-charge them !!:)

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629768#Comment_118629768

PHEV's have a place, they are a good choice if you have a dependable daily commute which can be covered by home charging, and a regular longer requirement where you should be relying on petrol. My problem with PHEVs is when drivers of PHEVs try and use them as BEVs, they end up constantly charging their cars and complaining about the the network. If the driver is willing to go to that level of effort they should of just bought a car with a proper size battery where they need to charge a lot less. When you get PHEV owners complaining about the lack of AC charge points at motorway services they've really missed the point of their vehicle.

NIMAN

We currently own a petrol and a full EV.

When we come to change the petrol, I am seriously considering a PHEV, only because both our commutes would likely be able to be mostly done on battery power alone. One is 38km, the other about 18/20km. And as it stands, a lot of the driving the petrol does is short runs to shop, kids sports etc, when the EV is at work with me.

Plus we will already have the charger in place, and the full EV wouldn't be getting charged every night.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629858#Comment_118629858

No, just the charging network. Loved the Leaf otherwise. Now we charge at home and don't have to worry about the mileage we do.

kanuseeme

Some people have more than 4 leisurely trips a year and to place ones hopes on a hub or a 10 minute charge has been proven a folly on more than one occasion and with the growing number of EVs, peak time charging will be a nightmare.

Fantastic if you have the time, but to add at least 30 minutes to a journey on what would be a long enough day is not worth it in my opinion.

There is no denying the fact, that this is a pro EV forum, people would go to extremes to promote an EV while mocking, making up lies about hybrids and plug in hybrids, even to go so far as to support diesel instead.

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630469#Comment_118630469

Well I am coming from a place where I drive a PHEV of my own and my siblings EV a couple of times a week.

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629982#Comment_118629982

I wouldn't be so worried about the falling road tax revenues. The increase taxes were mostly paying carbon costs.

Its the reduction in excise duties that Govt will be more worked up about eventually. That said, they will get more taxes (VAT) on electricity. I foresee a time when VAT on electricity >3 kwh will be higher

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630469#Comment_118630469

So phevs should only charge at home? why? Because some poor EV driver is depending on it? I could easily buy a EV and trip over my bottom lip every time I have to wait at a charge point instead I am delighted with my phev and hopefully I can get a charge when and where it suits me.

I only ever see EV drivers complain about charge points or complain about phevs charging at them, far too much complaining is done here about cable length, about ECars , or the placement of a charger in regards to 15 different makes of EVs.

I am sorry that phevs are made to be charged up and drove around on electricity and don't use as much petrol as you think they should use.

Saying that its a hassle to plug in is a bit much, coming from a guy whos car only does 200km, FFS it takes what 30 seconds to get a cable from the boot and swipe a card and plug in? Less if its a tethered cable.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118622341#Comment_118622341

The thing is, for every person that moans about it, there's another EV owner that is oblivious as they dont need the infrastructure.

Its horses for courses.

Charge at home daily, avoid the Public Chargers if at all possible!

But for balance, ive found since payments have come in, i pass by empty fast chargers daily nowadyas.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629768#Comment_118629768

I though your sibling has an M3P?

One of the few cars that has really good range ???

Why on earth does he need to swap to a different car to drive up North? I certainly dont.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630830#Comment_118630830

Can you give us a sample journey where your brothers M3P cant cover the journey?

Or indeed, one that you cant cover in the M3P where you have to worry about charging.

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631005#Comment_118631005

Clearly not driven around the north of Ireland all day. That’s our companies main area although we do have clients all over Ireland.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631024#Comment_118631024

So your gripes are outside of our Country.

This forum is mainly, if not completely Irish (Republic of) based.

If your based in NI, and you rely on the public chargers, then you bought the wrong car in my opinion.

No way would i buy an EV if i had to rely on the public chargers for multiple charges every day which by the sounds of your posts, you require. Bad planning.

cnocbui

As a non EV'r, the problem I can't get my head around is the economics of charging. Land is very expensive and if you were to have the same throughput, in terms of energy dispensed per hour, comapred to fossil fuel service station, it surely would be horrendously expensive.

A petrol bowser can fill about 12 cars an hour, whereas an EV charger would struggle to fill 1.5 an hour. Then there is the markup you would need on the electricity to pay for the land and infrastructure, which would have to be massive. Given petrol stations go out of business due to vialbility issues, despite what look like better expenditure vs income prospects on the face of it, it hardly seems surprising there is an EV charging network problem.

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631039#Comment_118631039

Great to know you don’t consider me part of “your country” I really have nothing more to say.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631042#Comment_118631042

They may make it back with shop purchases.

We all know there's no profit in petrol/diesel (1-4c per litre), but if people charge and grab a tea etc

But with reduced charging times on cars now, people may decide to stay with their car instead of going into the shop?

I dont know tbh, i dont use public chargers so who knows where we are heading?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631060#Comment_118631060

More 32 county BS.

I’ve seen politicians dodge questions like this before.

Why not just answer the questions?

Sounds like something is been hidden with your posting here.

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118631042#Comment_118631042

People can’t usually fill up their petrol cars at home.

I’ve had an ID.3 77kwh since august. On Friday I drove to Dublin 130 km away in sub zero temps - did a days work. Drove to city centre for a spot of shopping. Drove to raheny and parked up for night. The following day I went out to donabate for a walk. And came down the m5o and home. Got home with 11%.

Two weekends before that we drove to centerparcs. Parked up for the weekend and drove home.

I have never needed to use public charging in six months of ownership.

DANMAN2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118630034#Comment_118630034

A world where 130km commutes are considered 'fine' or sustainable won't be saved by purchasing a new product like an electric car. (one which is mostly powered by fossil fuels anyway)