General Star Trek thread

magicbastarder · 18-02-2022 08:59PM

i'd like to be able to find the article where i read about that 'cheap chris pine' contract, but it touched on the above too - it was about how hollywood was moving to series reboots because it allowed them to break out of a series that might only attract already existing fans, but now would (in theory) attract existing fans and a new audience too.

so it was seen as a less risky proposition than trying to write a sci-fi movie de novo, which could sink without trace.

it also saved them an eye-watering amount of money; where you could hire a entire cast for cheaper than a single big name might cost. leonard nimoy was in the first of the reboots, a bridge between old and new.

pixelburp · 19-02-2022 09:30PM

The foundational problem in all the reboots has been the dogged insistence Star Trek can or should be a €1 billion franchise. Starting from that point they could only ever be certain kinds of movies, and that had a very limited shelf life once the actual Trek enthusiasts bailed on the series.

There's no space anymore for the adult geared, smaller budgeted genre flicks. Maybe Dune showed there's still appetite for something not beholden to appealing to smashy-smashy audiences, but who knows if that will start a trend.

breezy1985 · 19-02-2022 09:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118660546#Comment_118660546

I get why 09 played to the masses but Disco really should have been more brave and rather than making Trek popular by playing to current trends should have strived to prove that there is still room to be cerebral and popular (what a Trek idea that would have been)

Boimler gave an amazing speech about why he joined Starfleet that is basically a manifesto for what Trek should be and I know I've used this already but the Muppet movie is all about how the lofty ideals of that show can still exist and be relevant in the cynical world of modern TV and doesn't need to sink to trends to be good.

AMKC · 20-02-2022 12:30AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118655359#Comment_118655359

I disagree. I think it was the best of the new Star Wars films. He tried to do something new and brave unlike JJ and his copy and paste movies.

I would love for Paramount to get him in to do Star Trek.

He shown in that movie that he could make a great Star Trek movie and unlike JJ he would probably care about it too.

JJ Abrams should never have been allowed near Star Trek.

breezy1985 · 20-02-2022 01:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118661454#Comment_118661454

Half his Star Wars movie was brilliant particularly creating the Rey Kylo relationship that is the one real redeeming feature of the trilogy as far as I'm concerned although I did like grumpy Luke too.

But he also created the absolute worst parts of the trilogy like Mary Poppins, space bombs, the daft space race and it's daft conclusion, the terrible casino planet ( has there ever been a good sci-fi casino ).

He is another guy like JJ who thinks it's his job to rip apart the history of the franchise. Dune was an exception for him as he was obsessed with it since a kid and actually drew Dune story boards with his friends as a teen.

Trek needs someone who is brave enough to sell it on its historic merits rather than sell it on the fact they can rip up and remake it.

Evade · 20-02-2022 01:53AM

Does Quark's count as a good sci fi casino?

The casino planet really was awful. "Creatures suffering is wrong, let's free the animals" *casually ignores the sapient slaves*

EDIT: What do Abrams or Johnson have to do with Dune?

pixelburp · 20-02-2022 08:08AM

Star Wars always had almost zero deference to space physics; the bombing run was just another oment in that "opt in" approach, and don't get what it is singled out. It was a fine action sequence, very tense and well crafted if one just ignored the physics. While the Mary Poppins thing I wasn't enraged about either; was kinda cool to see other, powerful forms of the force beyond violent choking and lightning. It looked a little goofy yes, but no great shakes either. Perfect Space Fantasy.

It was a brave movie that basically tried forge a new destiny for Star Wars, divorced of its obsession with lineage and the Skywalkers. To the point of its main antagonist saying to move on from the past and "kill it, if you have to". Heck Kylo Ren himself was a fabulous, complicated "villain" that went beyond simple megalomania. He was hurt, angry but not irredeemable either. While the film's decision to decouple itself from the Force as something inherited to an idea that anyone could be a Jedi a good one (that last shot was just *chef's kiss*)

The comedy was total shít and I don't think anyone enjoyed the sluggish casino segue ... but I'd honestly stick by an assessment of Last Jedi as one of the best, most character rich blockbusters in years. It did more right than it did wrong and deserves patience and reassessment IMO.

It told an interesting, genuinely exciting sequel story where nothing was certain! There was a moment where I genuinely wondered if we were about to see a switcheroo, Rey becoming the baddie and Kylo the hero... that was an amazing feeling (omg that throne room fight, another great set piece) ..

I was excited for the future of Star Wars ... then the fanboys screamed, raged and we got the garbage that was Rise of Skywalker. Episode IX was the exact moment my tolerance for nostalgic masturbation bottomed out; I was done being wànked off by shallow cameos and callbacks and "fan service".

Somehow, Palpatine returned, with 1000 Star Destroyers with 1000 death Star lasers? Oh and Rey was suddenly related ... Despite Last Jedi saying lineage doesn't matter, it's how you live your life that does? Oh fúck off Abrams.

Uhm, Star Trek!

breezy1985 · 20-02-2022 08:15AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118661685#Comment_118661685

Sorry I was thinking Johnson and Villeneuve were the same person these for a minute.

I always have it in my head that Villeneuve done Last Jedi

Rawr · 20-02-2022 08:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118661685#Comment_118661685

Quark’s is an excellent sci-fi casino!

You’ve got Holosuites, Darts and *Prune Juice*. What more could you possibly need? :P

TheValeyard · 20-02-2022 11:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118661685#Comment_118661685

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg8o__6bEEY

Come to Quarks, Quarks is fun!

Evade · 20-02-2022 12:51PM

While the film's decision to decouple itself from the Force as something inherited to an idea that anyone could be a Jedi a good one

@pixelburp

Depending on what you meant by this it's either not true or a terrible idea that contradicts 40 years of established lore.

Not true: Force ability can be passed along family lines like any other trait but it can also manifest in an individual with no record of Force sensitive ancestors and that person could become a Jedi, Sith, or any one of a dozen other Force practitioners with training.

Terrible idea: Given how stupidly OP the Force can be anyone being able to wield it with a little training (or none in the case of Broom Kid) irredeemably breaks the universe.

Evade · 20-02-2022 12:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118661921#Comment_118661921

It would probably have been a lot better if he did.

pixelburp · 20-02-2022 03:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118662610#Comment_118662610

I meant more in a narrative or thematic sense, not a strict biological one, relating to where the sequel trilogy seemed to be heading: this idea of the next generation moving away from the past, beyond the mistakes and presumed truths of yore. The Force had become something almost dynastic, the sole reserve of Skywalkers, Palpatines; they being the only "true" wielders of the force (of course there were other Jedi but they always seemed secondary, almost regressive in places such as with the Jedi Council).

Even JJ Abrams own prior film, Episode VII, played with this idea that the world had moved on, heroes forgotten or mythologised. It's easy to forget just how much was already set up in Episode VII, waiting to be expanded on. Last Jedi took that idea and ran with it, the last image a confirmation that indeed, a new set of Force Wielders might shape the galaxy. (Luke rose a ship out of the swamp after a few weeks training - it always seemed like something instinctual, felt not taught and ready to flourish.)

Oh, no. No they won't. Marketing said Rey was a Palpatine now, not some nobody who forged her own destiny (classic Abrams plotting asking more questions than answering), and the day was saved by all our old heroes fighting a bajillion Star Destroyers.

Evade · 20-02-2022 03:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663247#Comment_118663247

The Force had become something almost dynastic, the sole reserve of Skywalkers, Palpatines; they being the only "true" wielders of the force

Yes the two trilogies centred around the one family and antagonist heavily features that family and antagonist

Luke rose a ship out of the swamp after a few weeks training - it always seemed like something instinctual, felt not taught and ready to flourish

And almost three years of self study. The original trilogy takes place over the course of almost five years, the sequel is about two weeks.

Regarding resurrecting Palpatine yeah it was dumb but so was killing off the person who had been set up as the primary antagonist with no plan.

breezy1985 · 20-02-2022 04:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663331#Comment_118663331

Snoke was a bit of a nothing character anyway. Should have just went with Kylo and left Palpatine out of it.

Nothing I hate more than the everyone has to be someone shte. Like a certain Vulcan and all his surprise siblings

pixelburp · 20-02-2022 04:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663331#Comment_118663331

The plan seemed to be Kylo Ren as main antagonist; he inherited the throne by spilling blood after 2 movies following a master like a wounded, angry pup. He wanted so much to be the new Darth Vader, Last Jedi being the point where he snapped and decided to burn it all down (killing the past he was spending so much effort to ape). Snoke was just a classic Abrams cocktease, which Johnson wisely scrubbed. The most obvious symbolism of all this was Kylo smashing up his Vader cosplay mask; it's kinda astonishing to have a Disney blockbuster this openly iconoclastic. Presumably the last part - originally - was for Kylo to face off against his mother and Rey, with a battle for his soul as well as the galaxy. Actual, personal stakes and arcs instead of the "omg you're a Palpatine!" twist. I know there was a draft by Colin Trevorrow before Abrams took over, apparently rubbish, but don't know the details.

FGR · 20-02-2022 04:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663529#Comment_118663529

One would presume that Picard and Dr McCoy know Sarek and Spock's dirty children/sibling secrets!

Evade · 20-02-2022 04:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663661#Comment_118663661

There was no plan and that is a major fault of the sequel trilogy. Abrams had some bad set up in the first movie then Johnson threw out most of that and put his own bad set ups which Abrams was forced to try finish up. I'd cut Johnson a lot more slack if he had intended to do the third film as well but that was never the case. He put in a lot of stuff that the film-y people seem to eat up but never put in any thought as to how to tie it up.

breezy1985 · 20-02-2022 06:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118663822#Comment_118663822

He also never thought that hey "if I can just lightspeed my ship through a whole fleet why did we ever bother trying to skim X-wings across the Death Star to shoot a tiny hole"

Evade · 20-02-2022 07:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118664220#Comment_118664220

Which was then had to be retconned into a one in a million chance in the next film so space battles could happen again. The sequel trilogy really is a disaster.

pixelburp · 20-02-2022 08:06PM

Space is dangerous; once more showing how great The Expanse was/is, in that it understood a terminal amount of damage could be done with a single rock and enough velocity. A single stray bullet capable of ripping a ship or person to shreds.

The entiriy of Star Wars' battles hinge on suspension of disbelief; Episode IV a riff on Dambusters / 633 Squadron, and barely held up to scrutiny. The rebel fleet should have been shot out of space before those S Foils went to attack position. I think people are too exacting on the sequels, when the originals had as much bullshít.

Or Trek really. Amazing how all those ships always managed to appear on the exact same plane and orientation every week 🤭🥴 Even Battlestar was guilty of that, for the captial ships anyway

breezy1985 · 20-02-2022 08:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118664636#Comment_118664636

BSG didn't do that in fact it was the first show I remember that didn't. Yes the fleet flew the same way up but when Cylons would jump in the could be anywhere and at any sort of tilt.

Evade · 20-02-2022 08:53PM

I'm not holding the sequels to what real physics does, I'm holding them to what Star Wars physics does and for 10,000+ years of space battles that's not how the hyperdrive worked. But then again weapons disappear when it's inconvenient to the protagonist in TLJ so maybe the rest of the universe just shrugged and gave up. It's a poorly executed film with a litany of problems.

pixelburp · 20-02-2022 09:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118664718#Comment_118664718

Ah, been a while. I was remembering the Fleet all right, but yes as you say it the various ships would pop up on different planes.

magicbastarder · 20-02-2022 09:36PM

Or Trek really. Amazing how all those ships always managed to appear on the exact same plane and orientation every week 🤭🥴 Even Battlestar was guilty of that, for the captial ships anyway

i think SG1 took the piss out of this in their 100th episode. along with a lot of other things.

B.A._Baracus · 25-02-2022 05:10PM

Random thought,

I just came across some articles of how Kate Mulgrew hated the 7of9 character. She said unnecessary tna, the character had so many episodes blah blah blah. I don't get it tho, Kate had to have been the highest paid actor on the show being the captain and let's be honest, having a tall beautiful leggy blonde in a skin tight catsuit was always going to increase ratings. So how was it bad?

Jeri Ryan joined in Season 4 so Mulgrew would have had a contract renegotiations at some point after. More ratings = demand more money. So surely it was a good thing having 7of9?

breezy1985 · 25-02-2022 05:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692331#Comment_118692331

It seems she felt the show became about 7 and not the captain and she felt it was purely because the producers were infatuated with her cause of the TNA.

There is a good chance that is why she was brought in but the show pivoted towards her because she was by far and away the best character and actor on a bland as fek ship. Outside of the also quality doctor the crew was a Vulcan and a bunch of people with less emotion than the Vulcan with the exception of the obvious grumpy Klingon character.

For a crew mixed 70k light-years from home they all settle in so fast. Only 7 an dthe Doctor go on real "journeys" as people.

magicbastarder · 25-02-2022 05:35PM

let's be honest, having a tall beautiful leggy blonde in a skin tight catsuit was always going to increase ratings. So how was it bad?

because it was awfully tacky in a show which was supposedly set in a future where women were empowered by their skills?

breezy1985 · 25-02-2022 05:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692476#Comment_118692476

Berman was pretty famous for it. He meddled in DS9 too if the girls were not dressed tight enough.

It was no reason for Mulgrew to treat Ryan like sht though. Wasn't Ryans fault she was given a job.

Evade · 25-02-2022 06:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118692476#Comment_118692476

It's possible to be both attractive and skilled.

General Star Trek thread

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