Married Men - A Gay Lads View - Have you ever had an experience?

GreeBo · 10-02-2022 11:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118608213#Comment_118608213

Well I'm afraid that I 100% disagree that the definitions have no impact.

There is a huge difference, in my opinion, in being attracted to someone born of the same sex as you vs someone born of the opposite sex who decides to change their gender to the same as yours.

The sex of the other person I am attracted to determines my sexuality, not their self appointed gender. Their choices cannot impact my sexuality.

In a thread about what level of attraction or occurrence constitutes being gay, bi or straight I think its pretty vital to establish what is meant by gender vs sexuality!

10-02-2022 11:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609554#Comment_118609554

I think the point they're making, even though I disagree with it, is that if a man undergoes all the surgery to look like a woman, genitals, breasts etc. - then wouldn't you be attracted to them, too?

If they're physically the same, what's the issue?

Not my question, but I believe that's what they're trying to say.

LLMMLL · 10-02-2022 02:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609758#Comment_118609758

I am not making that point at all. If I was making that point I would indeed be making a point about sex vs gender. As I have said multiple times I am not making a point about sex vs gender. It's just that you are all so obsessed with the trans argument you cannot let it go in a thread where it is completely irrelevant.

LLMMLL · 10-02-2022 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609554#Comment_118609554

Well I'm afraid that I 100% disagree that the definitions have no impact.

There is a huge difference, in my opinion, in being attracted to someone born of the same sex as you vs someone born of the opposite sex who decides to change their gender to the same as yours.

I did not say "definitions have no impact". This is a straw man argument. What I'm saying is that the definitions of sex and gender have no impact on THIS argument because I am not making any point about sex or gender. It's just that you are so sore about past arguments in completely unrelated threads that you cannot see this.

You have completely ignored all the points I made in my last response to you (that my argument doesn't even use the words sex or gender) or that other people who have polar opposite views to me use the same phrase as me because the phrase does not impact on the argument at all and you had no issue with this person using the phrase.

You can continue to invent stuff that I never said if it makes you feel better to argue against the ghost of threads past but it seems a bit futile to me.

10-02-2022 02:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610354#Comment_118610354

Trust me, it's not any of us who is obsessed with the trans- question.

But someone else is, yes.

LLMMLL · 10-02-2022 03:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118610493#Comment_118610493

Lol have you seen your post signature?

10-02-2022 04:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118609301#Comment_118609301

Straight men = 0

'Straight men' = possibly lots.

I think it's gas that some have an issue with some people defining what straight is, but they can't see the irony of being rigid in their belief that sexuality should be self defined. We're both intractable, but some of us are more aware 😀

10-02-2022 05:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611247#Comment_118611247

The thread would be far more accurately titled, "Are you bisexual and, if so, do you cheat on your wife?".

Liberty_Bear · 10-02-2022 08:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611591#Comment_118611591

As a matter of interest do you tend to go for married lads or not your thing?

Liberty_Bear · 11-02-2022 10:47AM

A friend last night while we had a chat I mentioned this thread

"Lot of lonely or frustrated blokes out there, we are doing them a favour and we get something out of it attending to their physical needs"

Tis a point I wholeheartedly agree on

11-02-2022 11:03AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118606262#Comment_118606262

It is not an exception that proves the rule argument no. It is a straight reading of the definition. The definition clearly says that orientation is based on who you are "typically" attracted to.

If you go through your life being attracted to 1500 people therefore - and 1499 of them are the opposite gender to you - and 1 single person was of your own gender - then it really is going to take all kinds of mental and linguistic gymnastics to suggest that this is a "typical" case. It is not. It is the exact opposite. It is - in terms of signal/pattern to noise ratio - about as A-typical as it gets.

So taking the text of the definition and nothing else - it is entirely linguistically coherent for such a person to identify as heterosexual. It seems that rather than me taking a "exception that proves the rule" situation - it's people clinging desperately to a "single exception in an attempt to invalidate the rule".

Why this is - I can not fathom. So the words are seemingly defined slightly more broadly than people thought - and in a way that probably only applies to significantly less than 1% of actual cases. Why this bothers people - I am genuinely interested to know. And highly amused to watch it in play with some people. It really seems to bother them intensely.

On another note though - the phrase "Exception that proves the rule" is one of the phrases that almost everyone I have heard use it off line uses it wrongly and does not understand what it means. The reason being that the phrase uses the word "prove" in the scientific sense not the more vernacular sense. So people get confused how an exception to a rule can "prove" the rule to be true. Surely it does the opposite? Well actually the word "prove" in this context just means to "test". So you use exceptions and exceptional things to "test" the rules to see if they hold.

So what I am saying is not an exception proving the rule at all. Rather the rule is already in place specifically to acknowledge and address those exceptions explicitly it seems. The exception does not prove the rule in this case - because the rule is already explicitly acknowledging and addressing the exception.

ohnonotgmail · 11-02-2022 11:10AM

more than 500 posts in and people are still arguing the toss about definitions. Jesus.

Ten of Swords · 11-02-2022 01:43PM

@ohnonotgmail it makes so much sense now why the medical community refer only to MSM (men who have sex with men) and avoid all the label and definition pitfalls.

Keeps it nice and simple 🤣🤣

11-02-2022 03:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118614711#Comment_118614711

What definition uses the word typically?

Purple_Bear · 11-02-2022 05:46PM

I think in general, women's sexuality is a lot more fluid than men's. I've seen and known plenty of objectively attractive men, but not once have I ever felt the desire to get under the sheets with one. I find just the thought of being with another man, repulsive. I think the majority of straight men feel the same way.

Women's sexuality on the other hand, isn't as 'set in stone'. I've known plenty of women who've admitted to having had bisexual encounters, but they still don't identify as being bi. My partner and I are in a long-term relationship and she considers herself straight, but I've watched her have very enthusiastic sex with other women, so she obviously isn't 100% straight, but she doesn't identify as being bisexual either.

Liberty_Bear · 11-02-2022 06:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616917#Comment_118616917

That's a fair point. You know same sex relations are not your thing. You accept that sexuality can be fluid . It does happen with men but not to the extent as with women. Objectively attractive is a great turn of phrase too, you can appreciate other men.

Great contribution

One eyed Jack · 11-02-2022 07:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118611247#Comment_118611247

There’s no irony there as there’s no contradiction in pointing out that people are free to define themselves however they please, as opposed to being defined by other people who aren’t them.

That sort of person is easily dealt with, though I’m not always civil about it 😬

Annasopra · 13-02-2022 09:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615556#Comment_118615556

Exactly because not everyone fits neatly into a gay, straight or bi label.

Wibbs · 13-02-2022 09:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626350#Comment_118626350

Actually they pretty much do, but self defined labels are fashionable, comfortable and many people feel they don't fit in one or the other. Which is fine but I suppose there's no need to go down that rabbithole again.

14-02-2022 12:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626350#Comment_118626350

They do.

PaoloGotti · 14-02-2022 12:17AM

I think it is incorrect to call a man straight if he desires a sexual encounter with another man.

As a straight man I would find it a terribly distressing experience.

AllForIt · 14-02-2022 12:42AM

I think this attitude of 'you can't really put people into boxes' comes directly from trans politics. That somehow you can't tell what someone is and therefore you can't put anyone into a box. Not even your parents. I think that attitude is a little bit weird, if it's genuinely held.

But in many cases I don't think it's a genuinely held opinion, I think it's just a trick. Sorry, but I will assume my mother is a heterosexual, always has been, always will be, without her ever explicitly stating such to me. The fact some mothers swing both ways, or even swung only once, with only one person and no other person ever, doesn't make any difference.

And anyway, I think it's a rotten idea. Because if anyone could flip then one in a heterosexual relationship would have desires that could lead them to seek out their sexual desires, for something they are not getting in their current relationship. So in that sense 'flipping' even only 'once' is hardly something desirable as a human trait. The idea is not the 'wow aren't' humans so sexually diverse' some people seem to think it is. Thank God we're not all bisexual.

Annasopra · 14-02-2022 01:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118626489#Comment_118626489

Why have Health officials for decades now been using that term then?

Wibbs · 14-02-2022 02:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118628832#Comment_118628832

Because if they use the label "Gay", "Bi", or "Homosexual" they would get fewer men coming forward because of cultural pressure and cultural shame. This was spotted during the AIDS crisis back in the 1980's and why the term came to be used. A shame that this is and certainly was the case and remains so in many if not most cultures, even with the changes in western societies(which IMHO are sadly more surface than we hope). It's not avoiding the pitfalls of self labelling, far more about avoiding the pitfalls of cultural views and personal views stemming from that impacting societal and personal health.

EG a man who claims to be Straight on a medical form who has sex with men, may baulk at Gay and Bi seems to be altogether a bridge too far as a few in this thread have demonstrated is not giving what may be pertinent details. Having a MSM box to tick sugars that pill. Or the examples of women in this thread who claim to be Straight yet have had 'enthusiastic sex' with women, or are even in decades long romantic and sexual relationships with women, they could and apparently do baulk at being labelled "Bi", would likely be more OK with ticking a box of WSW(if such a label existed) on a medical chart.

It's pretty simple human psychology. It doesn't negate the reality of their lives, or defining them as Bi, because it's quite simply the most accurate description, but where there's resistance to that it can turn out to be unhelpful.

Annasopra · 14-02-2022 02:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629004#Comment_118629004

Exactly so often a person cant tick a labelled box on a form. Regardless of the reasons why this is it still proves the point that people often dont fit neatly into labels.

Wibbs · 14-02-2022 04:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118629022#Comment_118629022

Nope, all it proves is that some people don't like labels on a personal subjective level IE feelings, not that the labels don't fit on an objective level IE facts, and the MSM box was introduced for practical reasons to give such people an option they were less likely to reject.