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Prime Time housing debate: Eoin O Broin vs Darragh O'Brien

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    You fail to mention that it is Fine Gael claiming that SF are blocking these developments. Thats right, its only a claim!

    Sinn Fein response:


    Sinn Féin rejects Fine Gael claim of resistance to more homes

    Ó Broin says party opposes ‘sale, gifting or transfer of public land to private developers’

    To summarise some of the difficulties with those developments:

    1. 60 per cent the homes there will sell for more than €400,000 and the deal supported by Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil allows the developer 10 years to build them. 
    2. Mr Ó Broin also said the O’Devaney Gardens project was passed two years ago “and not a brick has been laid”. He insisted that “nowhere in Dublin City, South Dublin, Fingal and Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council have Sinn Féin councillors or council groups voted against proposals to build homes”.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Well, Mary Lou is not the only one who has objected to that development. It exemplifies everything that is wrong with Government Housing Policy.

    1. Its a build to let development owned by a US venture capital fund.
    2. It by-passed planning with DCC (who are also objecting to it) and was approved by An Bord Planala under the Strategic Housing Development Government plans. This process is meant to be repealed by the Government who are dragging their heels over actually doing it (presumably because they just want to shout that SF are blocking houses being built!) There have been several court cases over it because of its exclusion of local authorities in the planning process.
    3. There is no affordable housing being built there. The 540 Studio apartments (38sqm) will cost €1500 (33% of development). Rents for 1 bed and 2 beds will be higher. There is a total of about 1600 high rise apartments (8 stories high) being built.

    Architecs have described the development as a 'high rent ghetto'. Frank McDonald is losing his rag over it. Mary Lou (whose constituency it is in) is merely looking out for her constituents who are all opposing it.

    Read all about it here and don't make the same mistake of trying to defend the indefensible.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/drumcondra-rental-units-5597489-Nov2021/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,293 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What is absolutely shameless about the objection from Mary-Lou is that she is doing so because "it will only further exacerbate the housing crisis". It tells us something when a political party is saying that building 1600 dwellings will exacerbate the housing crisis.

    Be honest. Sinn Fein want this development blocked because they are afraid that the government might actually make the housing issue better over the next few years.

    The only way is up for development. We all know this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    All the support leaving FG must be voters growing younger.

    Can't be because of over a decade of crises, certainly not.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,132 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    SF's time has come, like it or not and I for one cannot wait for them to move from their "hurler on the ditch" approach to Senior Hurling. Should be an interesting transition for them to enter the real world I reckon, I look forward to the miracles to come.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭technocrat


    Leave the debate of the pros and cons of this development aside, do you want to now retract the above statement you made otherwise it makes you look foolish:

    "You fail to mention that it is Fine Gael claiming that SF are blocking these developments. Thats right, its only a claim!"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,169 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Why is Frank McDonald's opinion any more relevant than any other pension-age NIMBY?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    €400k is plenty affordable in Dublin for a working couple.

    SF will object to anything which doesn't immeidately magic up new free homes for their welfare class voter base. They couldn't care less about the private buyer.

    Who are these people voting for SF? They are literally blocking housing left right and centre and their housing spokesman is a student politics spoofer with no real world experience and fantasy land ideas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Retract? What? Sinn Fein couldn't block this development because it didn't go for planning through the normal channels/Dublin City Council. It was pushed through by the Government and people were not allowed to comment on the development.

    That is shameful of the Government to impose such a development on the local community.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    There are no private buyers in that particular development in Drumcondra. Its all apartments for renting. Cheapest rent for a studio apartment is going to be €1500. Good look with saving for a deposit for a house paying that kind of rent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Its great. We need some party looking out for the tax payer and its not just SF. Its the SD's, PBP and that. Also we've had many housing bodies and experts telling government their housing policy is shite.

    And as for who is voting for them, many former FG/FF voters going by the numbers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 823 ✭✭✭technocrat


    Retract what you said about SF ‘not objecting’ to new homes, as clearly highlighted in the post, but you know that already.

    This is the level of debate to be expected with SF supporters, propagate falsehoods, get found out with proven facts and respond with gibberish.

    Anyway I am sure the other intelligent posters on this thread will follow the rationale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Interesting article on Darragh.

    The political turmoil was sparked after Round Hill Capital – a global Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) – acquired hundreds of homes in two new housing developments that would otherwise have been available to first-time buyers.

    Now, with the Government scrambling to piece together legislation to prevent further bulk estate-purchases by investment funds, Mr O’Brien’s past involvement with REITs is coming under scrutiny.

    The Minister’s Oireachtas declaration of interests shows that in 2008 he invested savings in a global REIT fund run by Standard Life Assurance.

    Until his election in 2007, Mr O’Brien worked in financial services, specifically in the pensions sector with Friends First Assurance. But this weekend, Mr O’Brien declined to answer the Irish Mail on Sunday’s questions about his knowledge of REITs during his period in the financial sector and whether or not he recommended them to any clients.


    He also did not answer questions about the reasons he decided to invest in REIT funds and when he became aware of the unfortunate consequences for local residential property markets that can ensue from investing in these funds.

    ...and considering when FG were only unofficially in coalition with FF, their housing advisor, now TD, was/is married to the then head of Goldman-Sachs in Ireland.

    We need to address the bulk buying of estates by real estate investment trusts, REITs, cuckoo funds and the State which prevents them being available to first-time buyers. The State should be building rather than snapping up homes from under the noses of first-time buyers who are being squeezed in a vice grips by cuckoo funds and the State.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    It hasn't, they won't form the next government



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 642 ✭✭✭J_1980


    Me too :)

    with the end of QE and rates at 4%.

    wanna see mary lou battling it out with the troika, given that the debtor always loses haha



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,521 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    To be fair, rates at 4% would be a return to historical norms, even if inflation will be painful in the meantime to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 345 ✭✭orecir


    The Mom and Pop landlord phrase used by Varadkar and the likes lately makes my skin crawl.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    It is a naff phrase but it does sum up that type of landlord, buying a property for a bit of extra money and their retirement. Their exit has left a big hole in the rental market.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Mary Lou (whose constituency it is in) is merely looking out for her constituents who are all opposing it.

    Constituents always oppose any large, new development. Our national representatives need to collectively grow up and tell them to piss off.

    Do you somehow think if it was a block of apartments for social housing the local residents would be suddenly thrilled? The local residents don't care that its build to rent (nothing wrong with this either), or that they are "unaffordable". They just don't want anything built full stop. As always.

    This is a "pox on all their houses" , but SF bring the hypocrisy to a different level.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,826 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    SF election promise was 100,000 homes for €6.5 billion. Absolute bluffers.

    The electorate badly needs a proper alternative centre party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Not quite.

    This has given rise to the €65,000 figure – by simply dividing the €6.5 billion budget by the 100,000 homes. Sinn Féin housing spokesman Eoin Ó Broin told The Irish Times that included in the 100,000 figure are 50,000 social homes, which, he says, are already committed to and budgeted for under the National Development Plan. So half of the headline figure is to be achieved before the €6.5 billion budget is touched.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I think the current housing minister with private investments in REITs is a bit 'poxy'.

    Not forgetting the last FG housing advisor being married to the Irish head of Goldman-Sachs. Although I'm sure private and business life never crossed.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,826 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Ok, so they can build 50k homes for 6.5 billion, average 130k a piece. Still impossible



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I'm happy if we get a government that even moves in the direction of building our own above leasing and buying.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The fundamental problem is homes being built, you can have ideological views one way or the other on private market vs govt building and both have merits, but right now it appears next to impossible to build anything with any reasonable degree of density. That is the ultimate problem and where SF to be in power and advocating public building they would face the exact same problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    After over ten years or the crisis getting worse, I don't believe supply is the main concern of any government party. It is no coincidence that we find ourselves in a position were they can throw 'but we need supply now' in the face of bad deals and problems they manufactured over a decade. It's a complete con job IMO.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is quite clearly not the concern of any party, government or otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,403 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    political parties are clearly deeply concerned about this, they just dont know what to do about it, and they keep defaulting to their ideologies in trying to resolve it, without accepting, they wont work!



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They at least display concern on a national, conceptual level. But until they stop the utterly absurd practice of objecting and campaigning against housing on a local level every single time while pontificating about how they support housing "in principle" then their actions show that they clearly do not actually care.



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