Climate Bolloxolgy.

07-02-2022 11:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118597572#Comment_118597572

Cheers for the link

They're interesting figures. Are there any studies done on this, showing the carbon/methane numbers for the full process? Would love to take a look if there is.

07-02-2022 11:45PM

Carbon budget proposals were put forward by the Climate Change Advisory Council last year.

The Oireachtas Climate Committee has voted in favour of approving the carbon budget proposals

Next up, a vote on the floor of the Dail.

https://www.thejournal.ie/carbon-budget-report-oireachtas-5676152-Feb2022/

alps · 08-02-2022 01:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596051#Comment_118596051

It doesn't...christ can anyone read..

Grasslands refers to the soils..

Grass...takes in 1.6 tonnes of CO2bto grow 1 tonne of grass. 1 tonne of grass contains 447.3 kgs of Carbon..

Cow eats carbon...in fact 2.5 tonnes of carbon in a year.

Cow burps carbon at 100kgs per year..120kg CH4

Cow breathes out 996kg Carbon in the 3,650 kgs of CO2 that she breathes out.

The rest of the carbon is in calf and milk and out the back end, much of which is trapped by the soil.

Its a fiasco...accounting principles..

Mecanudo · 08-02-2022 01:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585133#Comment_118585133

The reason that gas is in such high demand is that renewables such as wind and solar have proven to be hugely unreliable. And to that the price of KWh of electricity in Europe is currently pegged to the price of the most expensive fuel required to meet projected demand. That fuel atm is natural gas.

And with gas becoming scarce as exploration of new gas fields being mothballed permanently by the greens, it means the price of a unit of electricity is being adddd to by carbon taxes and electricity generation companies who of course are delighted with the turn of events

The trouble with Russia and the Ukraine isn't helping current gas prices either.

There was another interesting thread on this topic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516899/#Comment_118516899

alps · 08-02-2022 01:39AM

Of the above figures, the only one accounted for in the inventories is the 120kgs of methane (3360 kg CO2-EQ)

The CO2 that the cow respires (3,650kg) is ignored, as is the 9.5 tonnes of CO2 her grass removed from the atmosphere.

But the accounting principles, in their genuis, just count the methane.

yosemitesam1 · 08-02-2022 09:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598141#Comment_118598141

Whatever co2 the grass takes in will be returned by the cow. It's a zero sum game. Only way for there to be a reduction in co2 is to keep it in the soil. Not all grassland management achieves that...

Say my name · 08-02-2022 09:53AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598525#Comment_118598525

I'm coming around to Alps thinking.

He's making the argument that it's a gaseous account. That since the methane gas is acceptable to be accounted. That the carbon dioxide then taken from the atmosphere by the plant in feeding that cow should be accounted too.

So first of all plant takes in co2, feeds cow and whatever is returned to atmosphere or goes in soil.

I agree with you anyway.

alps · 08-02-2022 10:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598525#Comment_118598525

I absolutely agree with you.

It is a zero sum game, however only one side of the sum is accounted for.....the methane emissions side.

Either account for all of it or none of it.

Markcheese · 08-02-2022 10:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118596207#Comment_118596207

There's a lot in that - the interesting thing about peat soils is when it's dry it's basically burning through CO2 , but when it's wet it has the potential to sequester CO2 ,

And if that's worth money , then there could be payments for peatlands - wether it's blocking the drains , or planting to suit .. it'll mean a lot of payment for rushes and sallies .. could be done through something like reps but with longer contracts ,

All of that would allow farming on mineral soils - while still sequestering carbon ..

jaymla627 · 08-02-2022 11:42AM

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://home.kpmg/ie/en/home/insights/2020/12/what-next-sustainable-futures.html&ved=2ahUKEwi35Nit8-_1AhXMbsAKHTWUBpQQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3h3tknTw_yMXQsfETMSshM

For co-ops and the dairy industry to have any hope of at least showing they are going to reduce emissions project clover has to be fast-tracked and funded by whatever means necessary, and tillage/beef farmers sounded out to supply land to the venture and proper rents offered to entice them to sign up, back when it was launched in 2020 wholesale electricity prices ment it was going to be a loss making project but had huge environmental benefits now with where energy prices are at the project will probably stand on its own, financially.....

It really is a case of the trigger been pulled on implementing this project this year put the ball back in the governments court that 600 plus million is going to be invested by the dairy industry in its response to facing up to its emissions issue now you need to greenlight that the planning process on their part and the esb putting in the infrastructure needed to accommodate these plants is fast tracked too

Markcheese · 08-02-2022 09:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599060#Comment_118599060

What's project clover ?

09-02-2022 02:00AM

Driest January since 1964 in parts of the country, mildest in 72 years in others

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/farming-news/driest-january-since-1964-in-parts-of-the-country-mildest-in-72-years-in-others-41322960.html

09-02-2022 02:23AM

@alps what's your thoughts on this

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/irish-grasslands-emit-more-carbon-than-they-sequester-teagasc-677973

09-02-2022 02:36AM

https://www.ifa.ie/farm-sectors/minister-mcconalogue-confirms-60-grant-aid-for-solar-in-2022/

Hard to argue with this logic, the limitations are just plain silly

He said there are significant limitations under TAMS to support adoption of solar on farms. This includes the maximum size of PV panels eligible for grant aid at 11kW and the fact that electricity generated must be used on the farm. It is also not permitted to use or export the electricity generated for domestic, commercial or non-farming use.

“If Ireland is committed to meet the carbon reduction targets for electricity of 62% to 81% as set out in the Climate Action Plan, a new scheme must be introduced that supports farmers to install rooftop solar PV, which optimises the renewable energy that can be produced on farm buildings and allows farmers to use excess energy for domestic purposes or to sell to the grid,” said Mr. O’Brien.

alps · 09-02-2022 03:26AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118603783#Comment_118603783

Lands Da Cor...Lands

Couldn't debate on it, above my pay grade.

Lands/soils have been moved out to LULUCF, with its own inventories, vast majority of land deemed to be building reserves of Carbon, but some emmiting far more than what the bigger portion removes.

The "change in accounting" referred to in the column refers to the accounting change from gross-net to net-net accounting.

This land use and land use change catagory is seperate from agriculture. (For the time being)

This has nothing to do with the methane arguement.

K.G. · 09-02-2022 11:46AM

There was a thing on telly last night where a woman did sums on the new retro fit scheme and proudly announced that it was only going to cost homeowners a euro a month extra to do it.absolutely no thought given to the tax payers money that was being thrown into it nevermind the extra consumption involved 8n the process. I prefer if they gave me the 12k and I put on a jumper in the house.just an aside do the greens actually know how the national grid works.when you hear them talking about power generation they seem to think itssome sort of battery.gas and coal are the batteries for renewables,unless a new technology comes on board that is cheap to store electricity

SomeGuyCalledMi · 15-02-2022 05:13PM

I've seen avocados mentioned a few times on this thread. People suggest that importing them is bad for the planet or something and its better that we eat Irish beef.

My daughter came home from school with this figure the other day. We imported 7,000 tones of avocados in 2018, and we also imported 5.7 million tones of soybeans and other crops to feed livestock. About 800 times more.

A lot of this is genetically modified crap and comes from what used to be a rainforest in South America.

So she says that every time you take a drink of Irish milk or eat some Irish meat or eggs you are contributing to the destruction of the rain forest.

How am I supposed to respond to that one?

alps · 15-02-2022 06:17PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118635731#Comment_118635731

Tell her the "soya bean" refers mainly to soya hulls, the outer shell of the soya bean, that is waste left over from production of various different soya products.

Unless animals eat this, it will just rot and emit greenhouse gasses.

Much better to feed it to cattle and let their manure incprporate it into the spil, where it has a chance of storning carbon and reducing the damaging effect on the planet.

As for how much soya dehulled extract (soya bean meal) is fed to bovines as a protein source..

If 6.5m bovines eat an average of 500 kg of meal at a 15% inclusion rate, the total consumed by cows, cattle and calves would not exceed 500,000 tonnes.

Fact is, most of this feed actually goes to pigs and poultry.

Cows and Cattle are being scapegoated in this hate a cow debate.

The teacher should know better, and it will be a difficult tack to get your kid to spell a different story, but the kid should know the truth anyway.

wrangler · 15-02-2022 06:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118635731#Comment_118635731

What are you going to eat instead that has a lesser effect on climate change,

SomeGuyCalledMi · 15-02-2022 07:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118636072#Comment_118636072

Good reply. Fair points. I ask her to let her teacher know.

half a million tones for cows is still a lot though. I always thought our cattle were grass fed with Irish grass. I don’t think many non farmers know this.

Why can’t we feed our animals with food grown here in Ireland or at least Europe?

SomeGuyCalledMi · 15-02-2022 07:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118636093#Comment_118636093

Irish or European grown vegetables maybe?

15-02-2022 09:32PM

Again we see that despite spending a bit more, insufficient resourcing is still causing a drag on the systems of govt, in this case its affecting forestry licensing

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/over-35m-spent-tackling-forestry-licensing-crisis-41346442.html

Mooooo · 15-02-2022 09:36PM

Id say fcuk all to do with insufficient resourcing being a drag on the systems of government, and more to do with the systems being insufficiently managed...

elperello · 15-02-2022 09:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118636471#Comment_118636471

Starting with home grown, garden or allotment would be good.

I wouldn't be shaming a kid for eating a few avocados.

IMHO too much climate shaming around.

Everyone has a bit of a journey to make on this and we should concentrate our efforts on empowerment.

wrangler · 15-02-2022 10:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118636471#Comment_118636471

Labour is a huge problem now and vegetables are labour intensive. very few now will do the mind numbing work invoved in vegetables, definitely there's not enough workers availabe to feed the world with vegetables

Livestock is necessary to maintain the structure and fertility of the soil to grow vegetables, Even in Ireland organic farmers can maintain their organic status despite there being conventional straw and slurry being used despite the chemicals in both.

Say my name · 15-02-2022 11:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637132#Comment_118637132

Since the Greens came in forestry planting and harvesting has fallen off a cliff. Campaign was set up among cronies to flood the dept with objections. Now more cronies have to be employed to go through the objections. Win. Win. Except for commercial forestry or any forestry.

Happened to be on the road today and any bit of cover or scrub I saw today in fields that have been there for years have recently been taken out of it back to farmland. Why? Because of the Greens in government and people are suddenly aware and cautious that those fields of scrub could now have stays put on that scrub and people realise now that their land can no longer be classed as farmland under any sale or valuation. So diggers aplenty atm - to beat the Greens.

As Alanis sang " Isn't it ironic?"

jaymla627 · 16-02-2022 04:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118637934#Comment_118637934

Heard a good one today about a high profile dairy farm for sale that caused a but of a stir on here, seems the tb isn't the main reason for selling, bord na mona are rewetting the bog surrounding it and circa 80 acres of said farm will be put under water