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Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,038 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Dangle a carrot in front of them to counter the ERG. Not even 40 pieces of silver this time around.

    “What a fool I was. I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative party into power.” - Edward Carson

    Roll on the fifth of May.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Bad news for the DUP:

    Looks like Johnson has let down the DUP again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    The DUP is like an abused dog. They keep obeying their master only to get a slap in return. You'd feel sorry for the dog if it didn't keep eating orphans.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,660 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Anyone with common sense would set a transition period of at least 10 years. More likely 15 or 20 to get NI and the RoI adjusted to each other and sort out the future of the new state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    That is logical, except that if there was such a transition then you can bet that nothing at all would be done for 14.9999 years and then demands that the EU push back on their demands to punish NI and do something.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    In an all Ireland vote for re-unification, you could be sure that the threat to the economy would be the major argument for the no side in Ireland. I'd follow that up with the threat of renewed sectarian violence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,557 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Why did the DUP want double jobbing, what was the strategy?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Jeffrey was afraid of giving up his MP seat as he entered an election that could see him not getting elected to Stormont.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,557 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Wow, that's grim. Really that blatant?

    He shouldn't stand then.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    In terms of your first line, there does not appear to be any other reason for them to want it to be brought in and it only benefitted the DUP.

    As for the second statement, the DUP took a deliberate strategy in terms of Brexit that would have made the people of NI worse off. Despite knowing that Ni was better off under the NIP, they continued (and still kinda continue) to demand the removal of the NIP which would massively damage the NI economy. They also appeared to be encouraging the return of sectarian violence to NI. None of the DUP should be given the privilege of representing the people of NI in either Stormont, Westminster or even in a poxy little residents assocation - they are a cancer on NI.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,244 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Abused? They did this entirely to themselves. They've destroyed Unionism and done more to secure a United Ireland than any nationalist. They did a dirty deal with Theresa May, sold their souls for £1 billion and then reneged on the deal for reasons of ideological purity.

    What a fool I was. I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power.

    Edward Carson.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Don't get me wrong, I don't feel sorry for them. It's just interesting to watch them get continuously ignored or punished by their masters only to go straight back for more. It's the masochistic obedience that I find unusual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 648 ✭✭✭eddie73


    Brexit will impact Northern Ireland very negatively. In economic terms, there will be carnage. If there is any compensation through union with the mainland, then it will have to be a very strong ideology to sustain it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,076 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Just like in ROI, he doesn't have to give up the MP seat first; its just sort of the done thing in the UK to stand down before the election for the other role rather than on election like here. I'm fairly certain he won't - he should be very safe getting in, although he may end up knocking out either Edwin Poots or Paul Givan!

    The risk is that he wouldn't get a DUP candidate across the line in the Westminster by-election, in his super-unionist constitency. Majority was cut by over 10k last time, resurgent UUP + angrier than ever TUV snapping at his heels; further tactical voting by SF and SDLP voters (many of which clearly voted Alliance last time) and Alliance could take it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    But what option do they have? They feel completely British, and therefore their only friend is GB. So the Tories dump on them, again, but what is the alternative? They have none. So they put up with whatever they get because if they lash out they may be dumped and then they will be on their own.

    They cannot run the risk of the GB government, whomever it is, taking the view that NI, by dint of DUP, is really too much trouble and sure let's have a vote. Once that even begins being talked about the fundamentals of NI will completely change.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 43,244 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    What option do they have? None.

    What options did they have? All. They had Theresa May bent over a barrel between 2017-2019. They could have insisted on full access to the EU's single market and customs union, parity in subsidies for farmers going forward, more investment for NI or whatever. They could have forged a new vision for Unionism based on internationalism like Republicans have done. Instead, they settled for a bribe, a meaningless pledge and tubthumping.

    NI's fundamentals were irrevocably changed on the 23rd June 2016. The DUP chose to deny this and stick to their standard No! No! No! routine and, shock horror, it hasn't accomplished anything. Worse, they've drawn the attention of the rest of the UK and Europe to their toxic beliefs and electoral tactics.

    So, no. They're in a corner but it's one they cheerfully marched into themselves. No nationalist since the foundation of NI could have damaged the union so badly and in so little time. I'm almost impressed.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    The same poll showed SF on 25% (+1) and DUP on 17% (-1). I do wonder if this business of 'let's crash Stormont over the protocol' is really just a smokescreen for 'let's crash Stormont because we don't want a nationalist as First Minister'.

    If Stormont gets brought down by an increasingly desperate Donaldson, I think it would be extremely difficult to bring it back. None of the ideas being put forward by the DUP look positive for the future of the union.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 44,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Crashing Storming won't change anything in terms of the NIP as London will be governing NI and, as we saw in the past, will rule without consideration for DUP or TUV policies (e.g. abortion).

    The unionists are doing what they can to distance themselves from the damage they themselves wanted. They also want to look tough in front of the home crowd given their diminishing voter base.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,996 ✭✭✭eire4


    I think you hit the nail on the head there with their real reasons.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,038 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    NI is less than 3% of the UK's population. Their representation in Westminster consists of 8 DUP who can be bought (most of the time) (7 SF who don't vote) leaving just 2 SDLP and 1 Alliance MPs out of 650.

    Crashing Stormont or even the constant thread of doing so would mean that those who don't want to be ruled by decree from Westminster may start looking south.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    UUP leader Doug Beattie's position in big trouble after a series of tweets from a decade ago resurfaced. Too many of them to repeat here - on BBC Talkback they said there are around thirty that have come up - but a search on Twitter brings a bunch of them up. He's facing accusations of racism, misogyny, anti-Irish remarks, being transphobic, and more.

    He sounds broken listening to him now on BBC NI trying to explain this. I do find his defence of this quite desperate. He said it was 'a different time, ten years ago'. Was 2012 really that different in terms of attitudes? Don't think so.

    Raises serious questions about what this means for the upcoming election. Will those tempted to give the UUP a vote now think twice if he stays on, and if so, who will they turn to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    Those tweets sound like the real Doug Beattie. His later change to a softer position was likely more political in nature hoping to bring back some of the alliance voters to the UUP. The funny thing is he will likely now be a perfect fit for the TUV. They will love those tweets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,076 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    He was in his late 40s when posting those tweets, so none of the "I was young and I've matured" cover.

    UUP seem doomed in terms of finding a sane long-term leader. Suspect the problem is so many of the politically astute soft-u unionists have left to Alliance.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    In any other country, those tweets might blow the doors off Beattie's political career; in Northern Ireland they may just swing him to an equally fruitful one with hardliners. As @L1011 says the "I was young and an idiot" excuse doesn't really apply here. He's also of the right generation to "get" social media too, so he can't even plead ignorance IMO about how the tech. works. Does make you wonder, Twitter aside, how many sitting politicians have used TheJournal, Boards, or any other online outlet's own internal commenting systems to post some incendiary remarks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    @Mr. Nice Guy Raises serious questions about what this means for the upcoming election. Will those tempted to give the UUP a vote now think twice if he stays on, and if so, who will they turn to?

    I'd say some DUP voters might just be more inclined to give them a shot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,076 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A quick check by a journo found three SF MLAs with similar problems:

    SF have had this over and over again, you'd definitely think they'd scan through all reps accounts for dodgy content and delete!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    I listened to Talkback on BBC NI which was discussing Beattie's comments. Many callers were practically giving Beattie credit for the episode, saying he had handled it well. One of the contributors said the fact he was in the army ought to excuse his comments as that was the culture, and an ex-army officer called in and backed up this line of reasoning. I'm not surprised he's kept his position but I am surprised he sorted the issue out in 24 hours.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,038 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight



    They are doing that right now

    Untitled Image

    Sinn Féin’s Operation Delete Tweets goes into overdrive (under cover of a media blackout)…

    They are more media savvy than most Unionist parties so the wonder is that they didn't do it sooner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    She's carrying on where Lord Frost left off. What mandate do they have to warrant her time?

    In other news, it appears neither the DUP First Minister Paul Givan, nor the PM Boris Johnson, will be in Derry to mark the 50th anniversary of Bloody Sunday tomorrow.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,638 ✭✭✭votecounts


    I'd leave Givan and Bojo off Micheal Martin has reluctlantly decided to go. No such problems attending poppy ceremonies or celebrating 100 years of partition. Only going for political reasons, hope he's given a hostile reception by the murder victims families.



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