Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

11101111131151161118

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,598 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I understand perfectly well what what a concept is. It`s an abstract idea.

    What I don`t understand with this greening concept is the hypocrisy of those who preach it. More than happy to ruin economies from expensive energy and fuel prices with their abstract ideas, while ignoring the ever increasing shiny new gadgets they are promoting are being produced by countries having an economic competitive advantage due to them not giving much of a toss about the concept.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Exactly.

    Everyone should keep their head in their asses. Like I would appreciate if greens finally stop putting their head up to my ass.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,276 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    You're creating a convenient straw man to argue against there Charlie. While I've no doubt that there are some such hypocrites who preach green policies whilst buying no end of imported s**te, Green Party Policy doesn't advocate that and instead advocates a circular economy.

    Indeed, it's probably a tad hypocritical on your part to rail against people mischaracterising rural dwellers whilst doing the same yourself with regard to Greens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    So lets say the EU and UK meet their emissions targets for 2030 and then 2050, which is a bit optimistic id say, and that's circa 500million people at the moment, whats the plan to get the other 7.4billion people on board with this whole climate change is bad idea?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Very deep pockets needed for any of those, and their reliability is questionable at best.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,276 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    ^ Air to water heat pump here and it's been rock solid to date.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭UID0


    I didn't say that the Medieval Warm Period was confined to Europe. I said that hot periods were balanced by cooling in other areas resulting in no increase in the global average temperature. Here's from Seidenkrantz et. al. (2007)

    "Whereas the `Mediaeval Warm Period' was characterized by relatively cool climate as suggested by low meltwater production, the preceding `Dark Ages' display higher meltwater runoff and consequently warmer climate. When compared with European climate, these regional climate anomalies indicate persisting patterns of advection of colder, respectively warmer air masses in the study region during these periods and thus a long-term seesaw climate pattern between West Greenland and Europe."

    There was also considerable variation in temperature during the MWP. It was not a contiguous block of warm years. From Crowley & Lowery (2000)

    "Despite clear evidence for Medieval warmth greater than present in some individual records, the new hemispheric composite supports the principal conclusion of earlier hemispheric reconstructions and, furthermore, indicates that maximum Medieval warmth was restricted to two-three 20–30 year intervals, with composite values during these times being only comparable to the mid-20th century warm time interval."


    Your graph shows a maximum CO2 of 300ppm over the last 425,000 years. According to NOAA (https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/climate-change-atmospheric-carbon-dioxide), the CO2 levels in 2020 were 412.5ppm, an increase of 12% in 20 years. I didn't suggest that past CO2 levels have never been as high. I said that in the time period you were referencing they haven't, and that the rate of increase of atmospheric CO2 is unprecedented. Historically, there have been CO2 levels higher than the present levels, but the time frame for them is in the region of 10s to 100s of millions of years ago. Looking back at those time periods (Inglis, et.al., 2020) gives a Global Mean Surface Temperature in the range of 9 to 16 degrees above pre-industrial temperatures.




    Thomas J. Crowley and  Thomas S. Lowery, 2000:  How Warm Was the Medieval Warm Period?, AMBIO: A Journal of the Human Environment 29(1), 51-54.

    Inglis, G. N., Bragg, F., Burls, N. J., Cramwinckel, M. J., Evans, D., Foster, G. L., Huber, M., Lunt, D. J., Siler, N., Steinig, S., Tierney, J. E., Wilkinson, R., Anagnostou, E., de Boer, A. M., Dunkley Jones, T., Edgar, K. M., Hollis, C. J., Hutchinson, D. K., and Pancost, R. D.: Global mean surface temperature and climate sensitivity of the early Eocene Climatic Optimum (EECO), Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), and latest Paleocene, Clim. Past, 16, 1953–1968, https://doi.org/10.5194/cp-16-1953-2020, 2020.

    Seidenkrantz, M.-S., Aagaard-Sørensen, S., Sulsbrück, H., Kuijpers, A., Jensen, K.G. and Kunzendorf, H., 2007: Hydrography and climate of the last 4400 years in a SW Greenland fjord: implications for Labrador Sea palaeoceanography, The Holocene, 17(3): 387- 401.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Have a look at some threads of Boards and you might see there are other views on that. I had considered refitting into a house I have, but wouldn't now having researched it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,276 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Fair enough. I obviously came to a different conclusion after doing my own research, but if it ever craps out I'll let you know.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,027 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Incorrect, vast majority of trips to central Dublin are by sustainable mode. The population of central Dublin has low car ownership.

    The public space in question is the vast swathe of on street parking spaces and the land that government gave massive tax breaks to private interests for the development of multi storey car parks in our city centre in the 1990s to the detriment of our public space.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,027 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    The 500million people you mention are the worlds wealthiest people and the biggest consumers. Europe is by far the world's largest trading block and the customer is always right. If we had a mind to, we could effectively dictate climate policy for most of the rest of the world, but we like cheap stuff.

    For example let's say Europe decided tomorrow, not to buy any more products produced on cleared amazon rain forest, those countries would be forced to leave those forests alone. Granted North America are also big buyers but the fact is those 500million you mention have a lot more influence than the average earthling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,069 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Prayers - lots and lots of prayers. It's a bit like tossing ice cubes into a stream of lava. My money is on the lava.

    Humanity pulling together for the sake of the planet and engaging in the civilisation retarding levels of sacrifice required to even so much as slow the rate of rise in CO2, let alone bring it to a halt or manage a reduction - it's a joke. It is never going to happen. While the west engages in self-flagellation, China Russia and others will use the opportunity of lower costs it affords them to exploit the idiots and pull ahead and overtake them, while laughing their heads off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,069 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,069 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You seem a bit confused as to how national infrastructure works and the basic concept of 'ownership', which isn't applicable to locals only.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,027 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,027 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Local ownership of public spaces is a given the world over. That's why local authorities maintain them public spaces, in theory. That's why we're pedestrianising Capel st this summer, 90% of locals don't want private cars coming through or bering stored in their public space.

    I think you're the one who's confused, a street with a parking space painted on it is not infrastructure, and certainly isn't national.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,353 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I heard some clown on the radio recently saying pedestrianisation of Dublin is an attack on rural Ireland. This is what you're up against.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,069 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I live outside Dublin and have driven into Dublin on occasion and parked in those parking spaces you say are not national infrastructure. You are clueless.

    I have had to surrender ownership rights to property in Galway to civil servants in Dublin, for tha 'national good', including the population of Dublin. Public spaces, roads, parking spaces, belong to the nation, not just the people near them.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I live outside Dublin and have driven into Dublin on occasion and parked in those parking spaces you say are not national infrastructure.

    Much like the lad who tried to get around the MUP legislation by calling a voucher a "credit note", just because you call it something does not make it so. Parking, especially on street parking, is managed by local councils. There is no stewardship of parking on a national level by any agency or department.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Parking spaces in Dublin city are nationally critical infrastructure and are a birthright given to us by the blood of martyrs like Wolfe Tone and Patrick Pearse. That's a new one now I have to say.

    For some reason I'm reminded of that episode of the Simpsons where Homer obliviously parks his car on the plaza outside the World Trade Center in New York and gets clamped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Think we need to ask the Donald has he any of that fencing left, build it inside the M50 , let all the cars and people who want to leave out and then just close it up and let the Greens have it, we won't bother them and they stay inside their reservation ,the rest of the country can continue as normal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    The EU can only just about influence the climate policy of their own members with the threat of fines and they still get some decent push back, sure they can try and attach some climate criteria to any new trade deals but see how that went with the EU-Mercosur trade deal signed in 2019 with a pledge to stop illegal deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon and to reforest 12 million hectares by 2030 only for 2020 to be a record year of deforestation in Brazil!




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,598 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You may want to check out what the term straw man arguement means. My point was not the hypocrisy of some who preach green policy. It was of Irish green policy promoting the purchase of products from countries that do not give a toss about Irish greens concepts on clean energy, nor about the coercive policy of carbon taxes to force the population to spend fortunes to use such products which were supposedly going to be powered by cheap clean electric energy from wind generation. What we have is domestic fuel prices as much as 50% more expensive than such countries and electricity prices 4th highest in Europe with us being the 2nd highest percentage of our electricity wind generated. Interestingly the one country in Europe that has a higher percentage, Denmark, has the 2nd highest electricity charges.

    Screenshot 2022-01-19 at 17-21-12 Electricity price statistics - Statistics Explained.png

    A circular economy is another of those vague ideas. There is not, nor will there ever be a circular economy. It is nothing much more than the North Korean Juche Idea policy of economic self sufficiency, and we can see how that has worked for them.

    I did not "rail against people mischaracterising rural dwellers". I railed against one self claimed Green supporter who knew so little about rural dwellers he believed they were all living in McMansions. Anything else in relation to rural communities was pointing out the hypocrisy of believing that moving rural dwellers into villages would lead to greater economic activity and sustainability when it is nothing more than attempted rolling urbanisation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,687 ✭✭✭riddles


    Why not from your perspective - too expensive v ROI this was the conclusion I made. Is there newer alternative to cladding the external walls?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    That's one way of framing it, another is your own graph demonstrates we are pretty much bang on average for electricity prices in Q1 & 2, 2021.

    Over half of our electricity generation is gas-fired also (the European average is 22%), which you may have noticed the price going haywire in 2021, so it's difficult to lay it at the feet of renewables when gas generated electricity is much more expensive to produce than renewables under current market and geo political conditions (probably by a factor of 2).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,865 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Complete misrepresentation of my views again.

    There is no sincerity to your posts if you engage in that kind of twisting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,027 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Sorry that the facts don't suit you, public spaces are administered by local authorities because they are local anenities. They are not national infrastructure. Sorry if that fact upsets you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,027 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    You say that tongue in cheek but actually that sounds heavenly. We'd have all out public space back, no more Karens parking their cars on luas tracks to go shopping.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,027 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Well I didn't say the EU, I said Europe, as in if we made a collective effort, but as you point out in the Brazil example we're not actually fussed and are happy to purchase products at low cost and questionable production.



Advertisement