Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

ammo storage law change

Options
  • 06-01-2022 8:21pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭


    hi fellow shooters, was wondering here i heard law changed on ammunition storage (cant bee stored in same safe as gun even in the ammo box) wondering anyone have more imput on it, also would really help if someone can point where we can find all these updated gun laws to keep on date, appreciate



Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    There is no central repository of all the changes in laws as far as I am aware.

    The SI for ammo storage and firearms transport and magazine capacity restrictions is SI 420/2019:

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/si/420/made/en/print


    The DoJ's site has some of the laws but considering how many laws there are around firearms in Ireland nowhere has the full list bar searching irishstatutsbook.ie for "firearm" regularly for any changes, or the oireachtas site for bills as they pass.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭J.R.


    Legislation on gun laws in Ireland is available here

    Happy reading!


    https://justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/LegislationPublication



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭JP22


    This is an extract from the legislation and answers your question.

    4B. Subject to Regulation 4D, a holder or an excepted person shall, when the relevant firearm is not in use, ensure that all ammunition for the relevant firearm in his or her possession is stored -

    (a) in a receptacle that is locked, and

    (b) separately from any firearm in which the ammunition is capable of being used.


    Transport of relevant firearm or ammunition for relevant firearm

    4C. Subject to Regulation 4D, a holder or an excepted person shall, when transporting the relevant firearm or ammunition for the relevant firearm in a vehicle, ensure that -

    (a) the relevant firearm is-

    (i) concealed from view, and

    (ii) stored separately from the ammunition, and

    (b) the ammunition is stored in a receptacle that is locked.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭renas


    appreciate input guys, guess need to buy seperate safe as ammo box in safe isnt good anymore



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Cheapest/simplest solution would likely be to stick a lock on the ammo box and store it either in or outside the safe and you are good to go.

    I wouldn't be getting a separate safe just for ammo 😉

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 39,179 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Inside the safe is ok. But it needs to be in a lockable box. The locked box makes it separate to the firearm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭renas


    thats exactlywhy im wondering here couse someone said you cant hold them even in same safe, doesnt matter if it has seperate box, must be completelly away from the firearm



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    You can store them in the same place as the firearm so long as they are in a locked container separate from the firearm.

    So if you had a safe with the gun in it and a locked ammo box in there also with ammo inside you are fine.

    Same as in a lot of safes there is a small locked compartment within, which would also be a locked receptacle and separate the ammo from a firearm which it could be used.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭renas


    looks like i got some wrong info here… thats exactly why im posting on boards couse usually its a perfect place to get real ansvers, thx everyone



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,975 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    The legislation says a  "lockable receptacle", but it doesn't give any specs as to what it must be made of, locks, securing points etc. So you can take a pound shop briefcase with a 50cent Xmas cracker lock and store your ammo in that and be completely legal under the law as it stands.[Not that I'd advise such a course of activity of course] but just to point out that there is no need to go over the top on this as some people have been told/advised to do so as a requirement by dealers,AGS and others. Have a look about at home, you'd be surprised what can be adapted to use as an ammo storage box.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭renas


    cheers on input, was kinda odd was thinking also, so just wanted to see if its true or just hoax flying around before i call the FO



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,975 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Basically, this law is just Ireland gold plating some EU firearms law and is a common law on the Continent when travelling to and from shooting. It really is just to prevent snatch theft of ammo from a car or house if it is in plain view, or from some lads having a loose box load of 12GA shells flying about in the jeep.

    Everyone realises even those in power, that anyone determined will have no bother opening a steel ammo box with a padlock in 3o secs with bolt cutters or a hacksaw.Or god forbid your car/jeep is stolen, anyone who can crack modern car immobilisers/alarms won't be deterred either by any fancy draw safes when they strip your car down for parts either, it's a placebo in reality.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭renas


    lol so true, they reguest your safes to be bolted to the wall but doesnt matter if you can cut the 10 cm square hole in the side of it in like 1 min and basically pull everything out, at the end of the day its the reasons we have them as we follow the law more or less, thats why was wondering couse in fairness im not a big fan of those unansvered questions spinning in my head :D



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭JP22


    Renas.

    I was also under the impression that ammo was to be kept totally separate from the firearm. I have always kept shotgun forearms, ammo, mags and bolts separate, old habits die hard as they say.

    Lidl/Aldi/Woodies/B&Q etc. sell small safes, 30/40 bucks. Ok for rifle/pistol ammo but too small for 12g ammo if your a clay shooter.

    If you have room in your safe, pick up an ex mil .30 or .50 cal metal ammo box, it takes 20 mins to put on a hasp/lock and spray it any colour but green. It doubles up as lockable option for home and for travelling in the car.

    Are you by chance a member of HH in Kildare, if you are, let me know, I have one possible two at home somewhere and I’ll give you one or leave it with HH staff for you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭slipperyox


    According to 4B (b), if you had a shotgun and rifle.

    The shotgun ammo could be stored in a safe with the rifle, and the rifle ammo could be stored in a safe with just the shotgun?🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    It seems to be extremely badly-drafted legislation. It reminds me of the nonsensical attempt to ban rough shooting last year that appeared on the Garda website. As drafted, a child’s money box would do to store live ammunition. They could have referenced the strength of the lock to an Irish or British standard but they didn’t. However, thinking it out… if a Garda called to inspect your gun safe, and found your shells either loose around somewhere, in the gun safe or in a flimsy box, the Garda will report back to the Superintendent. That could trigger (pardon the pun) a confiscation of your firearm for breach of the regs. That will oblige you to go to court to make an application to get your gun(s) back. Some district court judges never go against the wishes of the Superintendent on those applications, and even if you do get them back, you will be at the loss of your solicitor’s costs for the application, which will be more than the cost of a small safe. I think the suggestion someone made earlier is a good one, use an old military ammo box and put a padlock on it. Those boxes are easy to find in camping shops etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭JP22


    You hit the nail on the head JC.

    One of the main problems with Irish Legislation in general other that most of it is outdated and not fit for purpose is that most legislation is spread over numerous documents and most of it is written so badly. Some of it has been amended and re-amended so many times it looks like a patch-work quilt.

    Irish solution to an Irish problem comes to mind. 😨



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭renas


    hi JP sorry my bad missed comment, yes im in HH ,really appreciate your offer mate but i decided to go for an external small safe, would be not fair to grab it of you as i wont use it for purpose we talking here, i bet someone might be happy to take it of you 🙂



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC


    This is my briefcase for work. It is “lockable”, therefore it seems to be good enough to satisfy the new regulations. Anyone who can cut open a gunsafe won’t be delayed very long by my briefcase.

    Another aspect of these new regulations is that they say that ammunition carried in a vehicle must also be in a locked receptacle. I am wondering if a lockable glove compartment would suffice for that? Now, if I walk out my gate with a few cartridges in my pocket and cross the road into a field to go hunting, that’s fine. But if I drive a half a mile down the road to a different field, with the same shells in the same pocket, I’m in breach, if a séidóg stops me. How nuts is that?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Makes perfect sense.


    If the goal is to make a firearm and ammunition as inaccessible and awkward as possible when it is needed that is. 😋

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 39,179 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I don’t think the rules are there to make it difficult for a persons who has cut into the safe and knows where the ammo is. They are getting loaded regardless.

    I think it’s more so that somebody that does get access to a gun, doesn’t automatic get the correct ammo beside. Not just criminals but also children. Which is probably the more common concern.

    Locking them up is more so they’re not lying loose. Around the car, the shed etc. It’s all so that is asked you can have confidence that nobody has had access to any of your rounds. That’s a good thing for shooters.

    The field A to Field B scenario is a silly side effect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    [Off topic]

    Ah, the Gazette! That's the one with the Spider-Man cover, if I recall correctly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭JCJCJC




Advertisement