Second Captains Part II

I havent heard the summary but have listened back to the subscription episode and cant find where Murph says what you're saying.

He says he read the Malachy Clerkin article a couple of years ago and then discussed it with his female family members. Asked them if the feel the same way and the said of course. They are all often afraid in variety of situations.

Eoghan follows up with reference to the rachel Hewitt thread and the runners world survey stats that give detail of women all over the world suffering a variety of abuses while running.

I haven't listened to this summary either and I agree with you if you are talking about the murder. However, if you are talking about women not running (or feeling safe doing other normal things), then every man (even good ones) have a duty to be more aware of how they portray themselves when out in the world, because of murders like this one.

One scenario, for example, you are jogging away minding your own business, but unbeknownst to you, you have been keeping pace with the woman in front of you. She, however, is hyper aware of you and has become uncomfortable with your presence.

One reason for why this murder has got such media attention is that a very large percentage of the population fear that this might happen to them.

It doesn't shock me that it's big news, it is a shocking event, but that the level of coverage and the type of it is a bit prolonged and gratuitous and is more to do with the human interest aspects of the story.

For instance, there was a supposedly innocent man shot dead earlier this week in Dublin. It too was on the news and covered elsewhere in the media and rightly so - but how much coverage did that equally tragic case receive, relative to this one?

Both cases involve innocent people being killed - one is a news story, which will probably be shrugged and largely forgotten about, whereas one dominates the media for a number of days.

Some of the coverage and particularly the "think piece" opinions in the immediate aftermath of this have been, in my view, a bit clumsy and blunt, even if they mean well and aren't wholly wrong.

The framing of all discussion about this as being tied into violence against women is a bit of a flattening of a complex wider issue to do with violence in society in general.

wtf does that have to do with anything? There was a very very clear crossover between a tragedy that occurred, and a big piece they had literally only just done. Like, the two stories go completely hand in hand - it would have been really weird for them NOT to draw the comparison.

It was entirely in keeping that they would cover that story - for 5 fcking minutes - under the circumstances.

I think you're maybe coming at this a bit backwards - the point is not that women specifically out running are not safe, it's that women even doing something as innocuous as going for a run in broad daylight are seemingly not entirely safe. Like, it's a set of circumstances no-one should have to think twice about, and yet even that is beyond the realms of confident safety. (The point would be the same if the same thing happened while walking home from shopping in daylight).

I would love if they got Nigel Farage on to talk about it

We have allowed the Catholic Church to target, enslave, torture and abuse our women in this country for years!!

Yes- this crime is probably societal, and that’s exactly where it is comes from.

The Church has subjected our women to mere vessels for reproduction and denied them rights to their own bodies. Women in this country have been “at man’s disposal” thanks to the Catholic Church.

We allow this same institution to influence the young impressionable minds of our children by allowing them to remain in control what what we teach in school. Young boys and girls are taught that “Mary said YES”. What message does that send to our children.

Some people still very proud to be Catholic- but disgusted by a crime of which their church has been fuelling for years!!

END CATHOLIC INFLUENCE IN OUR SCHOOLS!!

Eoin quietly saying to Ken that the don't talk about gambling was cool. Probably something that would be cut out normally, but good to see they avoid talking about it.

Yeah brilliant. Great example of how something that seems small like a common phrase can be part of a toxic culture.

It's not "all men need to take a look at themselves", it's all men need to realise that small actions from us are a big part of the solution to the problem. It's all the little things that are let go, like the **** misogynistic jokes and comments that far too many lads still use, that reinforce the culture of demeaning women.

We don’t know the motives and circumstances of this distinct individual yet, but using the incident as a gateway to talking about violence against women, it’s fairly well accepted that the root of these things goes right down into the bones of cultural behaviour. Small messages reinforced over time that create this ‘them’ mentality and builds entitlement and resentment, and can feed into more unstable peoples perceptions and actions. Like, crazy people are still taking their cues from society, they’re just being more extreme about it.

a good example of a change in language and perception is in the treatment of the gay community - homophobic slurs were incredibly commonplace in everyday speech not that long ago. As that’s been increasingly made unacceptable, and people have become a bit more conscious of their words and behaviour, abuse and violence towards the gay community has come down. It’s still a big problem obviously, but there’s a correlation that shows how societal shift effects individual actions.

All this sht builds on itself, so you have to go right to the foundations.

likely won’t end all incidents of male violence against women. Very likely will help cut down at least some instances. Definitely will help women in a broader sense. And it simply involves not being **** to people, so where’s the problem?

First of all good discussion on this, it's refreshing to have a different opinion to someone but not resort to the usual stuff that goes on online . I 100% see your point and in general i am in agreement with it - it costs nothing to be nice.

However i do not see how these degrees of separation result in avoiding the tragedy such as the one last week. These people are sick and let's be honest they always will be. We do not need to know the details of this particular case and i'm sure there's some sob story/mental illness behind it all but frankly i don't care. Anyone who commits an act like this should be locked up for life.

We've probably derailed this thread enough. So sport eh? :-)