The 2022 Sub3 thread

ThePiedPiper · 09-01-2022 1:56pm #1

As suggested by a couple of posters, the huge megathreads spanning years can be a bit of a behemoth. Likewise, from reading the logs, there’s a lot of discussion on methodologies and training plans based on a sub3 marathon goal, so I figured a thread in the main forum might be a good place for discussion.

I'm going to throw my hat firmly into the ring for a spring marathon attempt. Connemara is far from ideal given the nature of the course, but that’s the entry I have.

Regarding training plans, well I’ve never followed a structured plan, so I’m not going to start now. However, 40-50 miles per week is the minimum requirement. 50-60 would be better, but realistically, it won’t happen, so I’ll focus on quality as opposed to quantity.

15 weeks out from race day, I’ve just done 16 miles with 9 at PMP. Weekend long runs will be up to 20 miles about 12 weeks out from the race. The 20-21 mile run is my key session, and I’ll work up to 14 PMP miles.

For the time being, I’ll continue on with the club session on Wednesday, despite it being more 5k/10k based. These track sessions helped me develop the speed for 2:49 a number of years ago, and I’d like a shot at a decent 5k race along the way. Another session I use as a performance indicator is the Yasso 800. In and of itself, running 10x800m at 2:5x a rep has very little to do with the marathon, but it’s a good sharpener and has always been a reliable indicator of how realistic the marathon target is.

My ‘filler’ days are then made up of a 10-12 mile run on Mondays, and a twice weekly 5 mile run home from school with 500 feet elevation gain. In an ideal world, if I could find the time/motivation, a couple of months of 60+ miles per week of easy base building would do wonders, but it’s not going to happen. My theory is that the past couple of years of averaging 150 miles per month has me in decent shape, and the next two months are for sharpening and focusing.

Looking forward to sharing war stories here with other posters, and hopefully learning from each other.

Swashbuckler · 10-01-2022 12:09pm

Delighted to see this. Thanks for setting it up TPP. I'll just tag a few others who I believe are targeting sub 3 incase they miss this;

@scotindublin @ThebitterLemon @Unknownability @squinn2912

In terms of my own plans - I'm planning on a sub 3 attempt in Limerick on May 1st. I've been training shorter distances 5k/5M/10k/HM since 2017 and this will be my first crack at the marathon. My shorter times would suggest sub 3 is very manageable but I've read enough race reports and followed enough training logs on here to know that nothing is guaranteed with the marathon. Hence my relatively "modest" target of sub 3 which may not be so modest come race day.

I've had a good two years in terms of training and mileage and staying relatively injury free. 2650 miles in 2020, 2800 miles in 2021. Generally I was getting in 52-55 mile weeks last year with 7 days running. Only one race in 2021 - 36.22 in Banna 10k with a tough last few km. I was previously coached by E.coli from these parts so theres a very decent base there.

We recently had a new arrival so thats three kids under the age of 5. That's probably the biggest challenge as sleep has ben impacted. I am managing to get the runs in though.

My plan started on Dec 30th. I'm following the Daniels 2Q plan and adjusting up the peak mileage. I'm in the middle of week 2 of the plan with my Q2 session planned for later today (weirdly my week is planned Thursday to Wednesday -so I have one big session on Thursday and one on Monday). As i'm only two weeks into the plan I cant say that much about the sessions to date - one with 7 MP miles, two threshold sessions. Daniels plans all feature a big warmup for these so you're running on already fatigued legs. There's a mix of MP sessions, LT sessions, Some speedwork and vanilla long runs. I still have 16 weeks to race day so all those sessions and long runs are ahead of me.

What attracted me to the Daniels plan was its flexibility. You have a Q1 and Q2 session & a planned mileage for the week dictated by Daniels. Once you do your two sessions then the filler miles are up to you and how you want to get those in. Right now I'm running 6 days a week. There are some weeks in the plan where I will likely bump this to 7 days but i'll see.

Thanks again for setting this up TPP. Looking forward to hearing everyone's stories.

shotgunmcos · 10-01-2022 2:02pm

Add me to list! Perhaps I'm part of the gang already but one swallow doesn't make a summer. I originally wanted to back up a summer sub3 in 2019 (with Hansons Method) but Injury in 2019, 2020, 2021 put paid to any further effort. 2021 was a focus on 10k. I'd love to have joined my sub3 run buddy when he did back it up at DCM19. He had an awful race though and rued the fact that I wasn't healthy for it.

The thing about climbing a mountain once is that you know you can get there. It's not as scary a goal. I should have learned, however after stumbling on the descent! It won't be 2022 personally but glad to see this thread and will follow with interest.

ThePiedPiper · 10-01-2022 5:42pm

Like you suggested there shotgunmcos, the psychological barrier of the first sub3 can be a massive hurdle. Away back in April 2008, I ran 3:00:21 off good mileage, but not smart training, in what was my 5th marathon. I focused too much on the time goal to the point that I detested every second of the one and only Berlin marathon I ran.

When I got the monkey off my back in 2011, I had a different perspective. I train a lot smarter these days, more sustainable in the long term. I know I won’t challenge my fastest two marathons which were total outliers for me, but 2:56 in 2020 Virtual and 3:00 on a tough course in Monaghan in 2021 prove that, for me, decent times are achievable off modest mileage, over a number of years.

FinnC · 10-01-2022 6:16pm

Good times are definitely achievable off modest mileage. It wasn’t until I cut back on mileage and added more cross training that I went sub 3. Focusing on quality over quantity as regards running was the silver bullet that helped me more than anything in going sub 3.

More mileage is not always better…

shotgunmcos · 10-01-2022 7:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118450899#Comment_118450899

I agree. Like TPP I ran 3:00:21 on my 5th marathon, upped the volume and capitulated at Berlin later than year! I abandoned the sub3 quest for 8 years.

For the actual sub 3 I picked a plan that suited my history as a time constrained triathlete, cumulative fatigue and focus on race effort/pace over the long run. Off a diet of 50 miles a week, 3x16 and 1x18 mile LRs, I not only went sub 3 but enjoyed the whole event.

Its mad, the psychological difference between 3:00 and 2:58. Perhaps its just the simple fact that one starts with 3 and the other 2. I do believe that some respond to bigger volume plans and others to a more intensive plan. Both have similar risk of breakdown/overtraining/injury and recovery needs. Overall, regardless of what type of plan suits you/you choose, listening to your body and managing the fatigue is as much if not more important than doing the training. I found the S&C, beside the obvious benefits, gave me an opportunity to move and listen to my body in a way that helped me manage niggle for actual running. If nothing else, 15-20 minutes of yoga has a great way of seeking out and ironing out creases.

squinn2912 · 11-01-2022 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118451420#Comment_118451420

I’d like to hear more about the yoga please? Did you go to classes etc or a YouTube kinda job? I’ve done 2 years of PT S&C and it’s done me more harm than good, at least I’m in no better condition than I was at the beginning

squinn2912 · 11-01-2022 12:42am

It’s really exciting to be a part of this group!! Thanks for including me. So some of my background in order to contribute. First sub3 attempt was in 2011 and I was very green. Did all my training without a watch at all and did the marathon with a basic Casio stopwatch. So I worked all

of the miles out by driving routes and checking the clock. For the sub3 attempt in my 3rd marathon which was my 6th race as an adult (i think) I did all the sums in my head. Got to 20 miles at 6:40s and then crumbled; I hadn’t thought of gels or anything except water. Daft. Went out 28 days later and did a 3:12 at my leisure. In 2012 the first sub3 came. It wasn’t due to great training structure as I spent most of the spring with a physio but the last 6 weeks I got some pretty decent sparring in and did my two halves in 1:32 and 1:27. Somehow. The Lord works in mysterious ways. 2 more sub3s came in 2013, 1 in 2014 and 2016 and then 2:54:59 in 2018 DCM and 2:53:xx adjusted time for Belfast 2019 after the fiasco.

ive Done 1 5km race since in 17:32 which was july 2019 I think.

im Very proud of the 7 sub3s and I don’t think the story ends there. They’ve come about in all sorts of ways rather than one consistent approach.

I’ve been on 30 miles per week the last while so I’m hoping to manage that for the next 3/4 with little real pressure or rigid structure, more how I feel and then hit a 12 week programme and give it a lash.

sorry if that read more like a log and again it’s great to be involved again. I’ll offer up what learning I’ve done and opinions I’ve made if they’re useful for anyone then great!

healy1835 · 11-01-2022 1:11pm

This thread went up during the first lockdown and may have been missed by some. A few great reports in there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058064627/sub-3hr-race-report-thread

squinn2912 · 11-01-2022 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118454800#Comment_118454800

I’m busy reading through your training log at the moment when I get a minute. Great reading! I’m up almost as far as Rotterdam now.

healy1835 · 11-01-2022 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118455911#Comment_118455911

Jesus, you've reached the nadir of my running journey there! Tough day at the office....great spot though, hope to make it back there one day and do justice to the fast course.

Cartman78 · 11-01-2022 4:38pm

I've ambitiously followed this thread but in reality I think 2023 might be a more viable option.

I still have an entry for DCM from 2019 so will hopefully be togging out for that.

Literally just back my feet following a ~6 week Covid layoff so not aiming too high right now

shotgunmcos · 11-01-2022 5:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118453101#Comment_118453101

Started with classes as my Mum used to be a Yoga instructor. Can say that when I did Pilates/Yoga I felt bullet proof running. No injuries. But then it may have been down to lots of swimming and cycling too or realistically simply 10 years younger 😏

I know enough Yoga to do 10-20 minutes of sun salutation type rotations myself. I find it easiest these days to switch on Yoga with Adrienne on Youtube, pull out the mat and follow along. She has a 30 days program started for January. She also has a few runner specific yoga sessions that I have bookmarked.

Apart from that I have a deck of Yoga cards that I got as a present. Each card has 3 movements and my daughter and I often pick one and do it together.

Its better than static stretching and more fun too. You can download apps to follow along too that others I know use to good effect.

Thing is you need to switch off distractions, breathe into the movements to relax the muscles and thats where you get the best stretch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqXZ628YNj4

Lambay island · 11-01-2022 6:45pm

Nervously but optimistically lurking at the happenings over here. Good thread to bring back to life. 👍️

scotindublin · 11-01-2022 9:15pm

Delighted to see the Sub 3 thread going up and glad to hop aboard the bus.

Had a solid year mileage wise last year and came in at a shade under 2600 miles, a decent increase on 2020.

Have a couple of marathons under the belt, 3.46 in 2016 when I was part of the Boards Novice Crew and 3.08 in 2019.

Chicago in October will be the sub 3 tilt.

Best of luck to all chasing the goal this year.

squinn2912 · 12-01-2022 12:06am

Lads do any of you have a strava link for Limerick or Cork marathons? I wanna take a wee study at the elevation. Waterford either if anyone has it please

healy1835 · 12-01-2022 10:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118458797#Comment_118458797

Here's my own entry into the club from Limerick in '18. Don't think the course has changed since?

squinn2912 · 12-01-2022 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118459766#Comment_118459766

Thanks but it won’t open for some reason

healy1835 · 12-01-2022 11:51am

Fixed that.

ClashCityRocker · 12-01-2022 12:10pm

https://www.strava.com/clubs/448385/group_events/324271 Cork marathon - pretty sure this is still valid

AuldManKing · 12-01-2022 12:16pm

Great to see this going again.

Done my 1st sub 3 in San Seb using a makey uppy plan with sessions taken from Steve Way (Bournemouth AC training plan) and some good quality long runs.

On the day - I could have ran faster than 2.58 - but sub 3 ws the aim and didn't want to screw it up in the last few miles. In my mind theres not much difference in 2.28 and 2.56 (although there is indeed a huge difference in 2.52 and 2.53 😉 but that's another story).

I do think you need to follow a plan and be clear on the priority of the races you do - which are goal races and which dont really matter - then stick to that.

Following a plan is important as you get a progression of stimulus, an idea of what happens if you miss sessions (you move on) and you are not caught in limbo (like me) when you've constantly changed the plan! (find a plan and stick to it as much as possible while listening to the body).

I've followed a Jack Daniels 2 Session plan for a 2.52 in Rotterdam and am following a similar route for Seville in Feb '22.

I'm thinking of using a different approach for a Marathon later in the year - following Daniels you tend to do a lot of the sessions on your own - I'd like to run with my buddies again - so doing 2 midweek sessions with a weekly long run with company may be the road to go for me.

healy1835 · 12-01-2022 1:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460254#Comment_118460254

Some ropey climbs late on there...😮

ThePiedPiper · 12-01-2022 4:26pm

I’ve no recollection of any climbs late in the Cork marathon. I ran 2:58 there back in 2014, there were certainly a few hills, but nothing difficult. It’s a good race, as long as weather isn’t too hot.

squinn2912 · 12-01-2022 5:18pm

https://strava.app.link/jscJrtDgLmb

That working ok? That’s my Belfast 2019 run I found it hilly in not ideal places. Limerick and Cork look no better or am I ravin?

Swashbuckler · 12-01-2022 5:37pm

Limerick isn't the worst route in terms of bad hills - apart from mile 25 where there's a bit of a slog near the GAA grounds. Other than that there are some spots with lumps but nothing I'd consider really bad.....Maybe the drag up into O'Connell avenue being the worst other spot but that's short lived.

ClashCityRocker · 12-01-2022 6:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118462324#Comment_118462324

I think they've changed the course since then, 2014 being the last time i ran it too. It looks like you come on to the Model Farm Road via Farranlea Road now as opposed to from Dennehys Cross which would be somewhat of a climb (especially at that stage of a marathon...)

ThePiedPiper · 12-01-2022 7:42pm

I’ve ran Belfast (3:01), Limerick (3:00) and Cork. I wouldn’t return to Belfast for love nor money for a marathon. Cork and Limerick are similar, not a lot of difficulty, but not flat.

squinn2912 · 12-01-2022 10:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118463527#Comment_118463527

Jesus you were desperately unlucky with both of those. When did you do Belfast? They did change the route in 2019 I believe

ThePiedPiper · 12-01-2022 11:21pm

Belfast was the year it was long, 2019 I think. Yeah, I’ve also got Monaghan, Paris and Eindhoven in 3:00:xx. I’ve more 3:00 and 3:01s than sub 3.

squinn2912 · 13-01-2022 12:23am

Yea I ran that day too. I was like a bull at the finish line. Absolute mess. Was your adjusted time under the 3 though?

back to the point I was asking you’re in a good position to give me your insight. For me the hill round 17 and 24 aren’t great in Belfast other than that not bad for hills. How would Cork/Limerick compare with that?

Murph_D · 13-01-2022 11:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118460129#Comment_118460129

EDIT: Oops. Never mind. Had fixed it too!

ThePiedPiper · 13-01-2022 2:26pm

Limerick and Cork are way easier courses for sub3 attempts than Belfast. I found Belfast a dog of a course with the late hills killing momentum. My adjusted time was 3:00 or 3:01, wasn’t a happy boy that day.

In a choice between Cork or Limerick, I think Cork is a nicer race. There’s some lovely sections along the Lee, on a path for a few miles I think, that are really enjoyable. The atmosphere at the finish is good. Limerick is ok, bit of a slog by the Gaelic grounds, I just can’t recall anything overly scenic or special.

squinn2912 · 13-01-2022 3:23pm

I know someone who got their time adjusted a second time which made the difference for the sub3. I didn’t look into it for me as I thought what’s the point? The adjusted time took me to PB but it was still a but sour 3-4 days after. I went mad at one of the officials at the end over it. I had been thinking all along that they could well have pulled the finish line back a short distance but I guess at that stage they didn’t know the extent of their mistake. You couldn’t make it up though after all the heartache over having it on a Sunday as well.

I’m starting to become more and more attracted to a go at Cork. Would give me another few weeks of base training to shake off these niggles as well. Wouldn’t care too much about scenery I’ll not even be looking at that.

Swashbuckler · 13-01-2022 3:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118467362#Comment_118467362

Yeah I'd agree with that. The parts through Limerick city are good but they are short lived. The section out by UL is just meh. The canal from UL back into town is nice. Raheen is meh - housing estates. The North circular road and ennis road for me are the same again - nothing of note. I especially dont like North Circular road. Maybe thats partly due to the fact I do much training on there. That being said, its my hometown marathon and probably top 5 marathons in the country? So its a no brainer for my first marathon. Actually that brings an interesting question to mind. The best marathons in the country. Presumably Dublin is tops. Dingle? Connemara? Cork? Galway? Are there better ones?

shotgunmcos · 13-01-2022 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468054#Comment_118468054

Connemara is beautiful. Rolling hills for 20 miles, then a winding 2 mile hill from 22-24. Bagged a top 10 there with a 3:00:21 10 years ago. Its not a PB course by any stretch but its just so remote and scenic.

babacool · 13-01-2022 4:31pm

Uuuuhhhh Connemara is great. So many good and even more bad (yet good) memories from this race (I even like that they specifically comment on 2016 on their webpage with regards to weather which was the year I did it 😂).

it is definitely a big challenge to get a sub3 there and probably a different lead up to this race than a flat marathon.

havent read the entire thread yet but what is your experience when it comes to marathons so far? Weekly mileage etc?

having broken sub3 just a year after a massive injury (caused by two failed attempts at sub3 by getting things wrong) and now be able to run a sub3 during a steady long run if I want to (no this is not to show off) my take on sub3 is “if I can do it, anyone can do it”. It just depends on the right mindset and the willingness to put in the effort. Im happy to share experience and personal “wisdom” if desired. Just ask me any question (for those who know me: im not a coach!!! But learned a lot from the right coaching over the past 3 years and are more than happy to pass on anything I can.)

ThePiedPiper · 13-01-2022 5:59pm

Despite never actually running well in DCM, I still reckon it’s the best marathon in Ireland for the majority of runners. With big pace groups, support and gels, energy drinks, etc, it is as good as any mid-level international marathon.

For scenery and solitude, nothing comes close to how much I love Monaghan, but forget about trying to run a fast time. Connemara is beautiful, but the 2016 experience in the Ultra very nearly broke me and took a couple of years to get over. Sub3 group in Connemara will be tiny, maybe 10 runners overall under 3 hours, so mentally it’ll be tough.

babacool · 13-01-2022 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468978#Comment_118468978

Oh yea. 2016 was brutal! On target for sub3 until the hailstorm hit us (or was it hard rain can’t even remember what it was) and then just happy to “survive” and finish in 3:21 or so. Best experience ever though!

the good thing with hilly marathons is though (at least for me) I find them easier to get a great time as I’m always extremely mindful of the course and hence pace myself accordingly. With any flat race usually tend to go out too hard thinking I have to hit even splits as it is flat! Hence for any distance (except 10miler) so far my best results come from “rolling hills”.

shotgunmcos · 13-01-2022 6:14pm

For a sub3 pace group, you dont necessarily need to attach yourself to the pacer. A mate and I basically ran 10 miles just behind the group in Limerick then slowly reeled it in as runners splintered away from it. By 20 miles it was a group of <10 and with 3-4 miles to go people were either making a break for it or falling off. It was pretty calming actually to sit back from the group for 10 miles, join it for 10-12 miles getting pulled along, then let it go to bag a negative split. I remember feeling glad for the pacer from miles 20-23.

Theres a sub3 group in Connemara?! Do they run even splits?

babacool · 13-01-2022 6:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469060#Comment_118469060

Back in 2016 it’s been 5-8 runners attempting it. Think 1 got close to it and everyone else dropped off.

my point on pacers is, if you don’t know them make sure you talk to them first before deciding to stick with them. Just to make sure they approach the race suiting your needs. But generally I agree especially for races like dcm. Go out 10-15sec per k slower than your target pace and pick it up after 10miles. It’s not an even or positive split course!

connemara I would guess is more a positive split just not sure how much faster the first half should be in order to not get destroyed before the 2nd half

ThePiedPiper · 13-01-2022 7:43pm

There’s no pacers in Conn, just hoping that an informal group could form. First half should be maybe 1:27, lose a minute up the hill at 13 miles, regain it before Maam, then probably lose two minutes on Maam-Maam Cross. Easier said than done, I ran a 16 minute positive split in 2007!!

shotgunmcos · 13-01-2022 8:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469502#Comment_118469502

I did 1:27/1:33 in 2011. Agree about a 6min positive or thereabouts

babacool · 13-01-2022 10:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118469502#Comment_118469502

Well, there are pacers but not for sub3. Think it’s hard to find someone pacing that time there 😁.

6min split sounds about right to me. Then again, weather is unpredictable and could have a massive impact too!

what about the ultra? Would you go out fast the first 13mile (faster than normal ultra) or in that case for a negative split knowing what comes at to end and to ensure that you need something left in your legs? It’s still on my bucket list to someday do it aiming for 4:30hrs overall (or slightly faster).

longrunn · 14-01-2022 1:35pm

I'll be doing my first marathon in Cork this year. I think I'll be somewhere in around 3:10 to 3:15 but sub-3 is a goal for a future race. Has anybody done something similar, gone from 3:15 to sub-3 and how long did it take between races?

ThePiedPiper · 14-01-2022 2:27pm

Longrunn, I went from 3:12 in DCM 2007 to 3:00 in April 2008. It was a decent jump on paper, but in reality, the 3:12 was a failed, ridiculously optimistic effort at sub3. You’re probably right in being patient, there’s nothing more disheartening than losing 10 minutes in the last 10 miles of a marathon. On the other hand, staying patient and controlled in a race and picking it up in the last 10k is a fantastic feeling.

babacool · 14-01-2022 2:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118473723#Comment_118473723

I went from 3:46 in 2014 (DCM) to 3:35 (DCM) in 2015, 3:21 (Connemara) and 3:01 in 2016 (DCM), 2:47 (DCM) in 2018 and 2:39 in 2019 (DCM). All those "jumps" were easy enough and the 3:01 wasn't really planned. I trained for a 3:10, hoping for 3:05. Problem came after. I assumed the progress will continue and I just need to do more and faster and started to do silly workouts, too fast too often and had a setback in 2017 aiming for 2:55 but finishing in 3:03 on a very flat course in Germany. That plus an injury had me change my entire view on training, nutrition etc as i realized though i might have gotten somewhere with what I did but to get to the next level (which was Sub3) things need to change. The first thing was: find a coach you trust and understands you as an athlete and not just tries to fit you into his/her training roster. Then get away from "i need to run sub3 and in order to get there I need to have a subx 5k, 10k etc". Just trust your coach and enjoy your journey. :)

duffyshuffle · 14-01-2022 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118468419#Comment_118468419

Go on then, besides finding a coach and trusting the plan, what did you do around training/weekly mileage/types of sessions/nutrition that helped your improvements?

babacool · 14-01-2022 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475034#Comment_118475034

keep it simple. Running isn’t rocket science. You don’t require fancy sessions to improve. Always remember: most of us are not elite runners. We don’t have 20hrs of supervised training where every step is monitored.
keep the weekly mileage steady. Never increase mileage and pace/intensity at the same time. Either/or but never both.
get a good feel for calories burnt/calories eaten. We burn a lot calories during a run then we think.

with that in mind:

nutrition:

before the injury I had roughly 82kg on me at a height of 184cm. After the injury (next marathon) my weight was down to 72kg. Most of that weight loss came from logging food/counting calories for a while. Just to get a good feel for what is part of a meal, how much can I eat/drink etc. if you really think about it, it is very simple. When you are in marathon training you don’t need pizza, chocolate, alcohol etc. eat your greens, your chicken (yes even with a nice crispy skin), eat your lean beef. Stay away from pork and processed meat.

a normal day looked like this:

breakfast: 2 biscuits of weetabix, scoop of diet whey powder, 1 banana, 1 kiwi and almond milk.

1st snack - 1 protein bar

lunch: 100gr of oats with 100gr of blueberries and a scoop of diet whey powder

2nd snack - 1 apple and 2 carrots

dinner - a big salat with chicken, kale, spinach

Snack 3 - 25gr of nuts or some unsalted popcorn. No food 3hrs before bedtime.

long runs always on empty regardless if easy or as part of a session. No food at least 4hrs prior to a session and never more than 300kcal the last meal before it.

main aim for the day was to ensure that carbs, protein, all needed vitamins and fats were covered and total calorie count was never more than I burnt as per Garmin.

Did that for about 4 months if I remember correctly. i don’t log Food and count calories anymore though. By now I know what I can and can’t eat and the weight remains consistent (went up to 77kg again at some stage but managed to keep it around 74-77kg for the past 4 years now without having to starve).

Weekly mileage:

We need to remember that marathon training doesn’t start 10 weeks out. For me it starts 6months out. The mindset changes from getting great times in shorter races to let’s get the base right. I consider myself as an endurance runner. Im not fast but I can hold a good pace for a very long time! So in my case a lot comes from volume.

at the start of a build up my weekly mileage is around 90-110km a week. 2 workouts and a “long run”. 3 months out I usually bring up the volume to around 115-125km (normally going by a 4 week block with then adding a recovery week by reducing the volume by 10-15% and have a TT or race in there if fits). During the 8 weeks of intense marathon specific training my weekly volume will now go up to 145-165km per week for about 4-6 weeks and depending on what the coach says of course. In the past that would include 1 workout and 1 long run with a workout included but the odd week with 2 workouts and an easy long runs.

sessions:

From what I have learned is that you should have one key session and one that supports the key session. Train on fatigue legs and slower paces have the same benefit as training on well rested legs but faster paces. It just means less risk of injuries (ie pulling the hamstring).

my favourite sessions during the marathon block are sessions like 3*(4-3-2-1min) with 90sec recovery jog between reps and 4min between sets. Pace would be at 10mile to HMP. Or pace alternations: 10-5-10min tempo runs. 10min @ 5sec slower than MP and the 5min at MP or monster sessions like 4*9k progression run and Canova style workouts. Hill reps at the right time are brilliant too and add speed to your legs without overstretching anything.

main thing had and still is that it is down to effort and not really pace. I train a lot on hilly routes. If I would be stuck on “I need to hit a 4:00min pace regardless” on an incline it would break me. I’d rather slow down to 4:10 on that rep but get the right result.

big thing is having the right race at the right time. Start with a 5k 3-4month out. Then a 10k, 10miler, HM every few weeks to finish a block. Just to see that you are on pace and you are working at the right effort.

i could go on and on now and write down every single thing I did but that would be an entire blog that I don’t have (apart from my training record on strava and food logs on MyFitnessPal).

Hence, what exactly is your question? What exactly are you struggling with? What is that you think you can/should improve on?

As said, happy to share my experiences yet in order to be helpful for you (however way you would take my feedback) I need a bit more on what you are looking for otherwise as you can see from the above my mind jumps from one thing to another and may come across unstructured and unhelpful. 😁

squinn2912 · 14-01-2022 5:25pm

Wow @babacool lovin your contributions here!! It’s like a look into the future! Would you talk about your S&C routine? I presume you trained 7 days for mileage like that if not some double days? I don’t think that’s an option for me as I can’t see my body taking it. TIA

duffyshuffle · 14-01-2022 5:36pm

No that’s a great summary thanks for posting that, hard to argue with any of it and lots to take from lots of it

babacool · 14-01-2022 5:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118475465#Comment_118475465

Ha… S&C - that’s a good one! 😁

I haven’t stretched in years. I don’t do Yoga, pilates etc.
s&c is part of the pre build up phase but probably a lot less than other would suggest. I would do 1 session per week over a period of 4-6 weeks and then stop. Not because it’s ok but mostly because I’m human and start forgetting about it until the body says “listen, here is a little warning. Do your stuff again or I will stop you from running”. It’s just important to know those trigger points so that the little niggle doesn’t turn into a bigger injury/setback. A normal session would be as prescribed by the coach back then:

Explosive

1) Squat Jumps 12kg x2- 3 sets of 12 (120 sec recovery) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOTO2qWRy9U

2:30min in between

2) Squat box Jump 10kg x2- 3 sets of 10 (90sec rec) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPO-OMCpnCU

5min in between

Strength

Barbell Squat - 4x5 reps 20kg each side (120sec rec)

2min in between

Conditioning

Box pistol Squats - 3x10 (each leg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc4YfSHjbYE

2 * 40 speed single leg calve raises

the only thing I really keep up and do at least once a week are Nordic curls. No more than 4 reps but on a constant basis. I found that since I do those and keep them doing I have no more issues with hamstrings, glutes etc.

also basically to compensate for a lack of specific S&c sessions (after those few weeks) I use every opportunity during the day to do something. When preparing food I do a few calve raises, when brushing my teeth I add some squats, when putting the little one to sleep do 1*60sec plank whilst waiting for him to have brushed his teeth and so on. Break it up, add a bit of fun to it. As long as you do something, that’s definitely more than not doing anything at all.

with regards to mileage. Yes, a 140+ week is based on 7 days of running and includes at least 2 days with doubles. But that’s just down to time as it is sometimes easier to have 2 runs rather than 1. If you commute obviously try to combine that with running. If you don’t want the impact on your family use your lunch break. The way how I see it is that I have to sacrifice my break and my commute and not the family their time with me (unless they say “please go for a run!!! Which happens more often than you think 😂).

now can your body “take it”. Sure it can if the basics are done. A few years ago I thought I will never be able to run 14 days straight. Well, last year I ran for 5 or 6months straight. Anything is possible if you give your body time to adjust and adopt. Just remember don’t increase pace and volume. Slow down a bit and you will see your recover quicker and can go for another run. With regards to consecutive days, don’t count the days but go by weeks. I often felt fatigue on a Sunday evening thinking “rest day tomorrow” and then Monday came and I was like “well, a new week a new start. Let’s go again” and the legs felt fine.

with regards to doubles start simple. Take a day that you would normally do 12k. Break this up. 7k in the morning and 5-6k in the evening (give yourself at least 5hrs between both runs). Make sure both runs are on the slower end and shouldn’t involve any workout. After you got used to doing doubles increase volume. 8k in the morning 6k in the evening and you are now doing 14k on a day you would normally do 12k and feel the same level of fatigue.

one more thing on sessions/long runs. Best thing my coach taught me back then was to have a nice long run the day after a workout. Slow down on that run but do your distance/time. This is a strength builder. An easy run or Rest day doesn’t give the same benefit.

The 2022 Sub3 thread

Comments