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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,445 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    You still haven't told us what these things are doing to keep us "safe". What are the health benefits of having children sitting in the cold wearing coats and hats for 5 or 6 hours a day for example? Or do you just love the theatre of it all?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭JP100


    I feel very calm myself but thank you for the concern nonetheless! As this is indeed a discussion forum, all I am doing here is pointing out the faux outrage around ventilation in schools from a number of posters on here. When in actual fact what these posters are actually concerned about is having all mitigation measures recommended by public health not followed or dropped immediately.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ditch masks in schools? Absolutely. You can find my posts against them when they were brought in in a panic, 19 months into a pandemic. We didn’t need them for the first year and a half of schools during Covid, we didn’t need them in a rushed panic.

    Where did I say ditch ventilation? Again, you can find my posts here yesterday calling for a common sense approach. If a classroom is freezing, close some windows. If not, have them open.

    But what is the point of measures to still slow the spread when it is ripping regardless, in and out of school. It’s deluding ourselves that we are ‘staying safe’ by forcing kids to wear masks and just dragging out the inevitable spread of omicron. It will spread. We are just pushing a problem down the road.

    If you want masks forever and to wear them, fire away. Windows open always, fire away. But don’t force everyone to run with this in the name of ‘staying safe’.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭JP100


    You continue to completely miss the point. I never championed anything either way. I merely pointed out that the agenda from a number of posters on here is less about a concern around windows being open in a classroom and more about the overall removal of restrictions.



  • Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    So with over 26k cases today, and all the previous cases from Omicron, and the undercounting of cases, everyone would get this within a short number of months. Here comes the summer!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 477 ✭✭glitterIsland


    Edit to delete



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 498 ✭✭JP100


    As stated already, I have never championed anything either way. Only merely pointed out the hypocrisy in a number of posters around ventilation in schools when their real modus operandi is the immediate removal of societal restrictions on a wider scale. The latter is fine if that is what you believe but just come out and say that and spare us all the other nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,392 ✭✭✭corkie


    ⓘ "At some point something inside me just clicked and I realized that I didn't have to deal with anyone's bullshit ever again."
    » “mundus sine caesaribus” «



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭GeorgeBailey


    It's not at all a suitable term and considerably devalues any subsequent point you may try to make. You can do better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    Haven't posted in this forum for quite some time but my mate in Quebec sent me this article, from January 18th they have expanded the covid vaccination pass to be needed to buy booze from the off licence, now that sounds a bit too extreme.


    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    The world needs to move on from Covid urgently, it is totally undermining trust in science, media, politicians and democracy, whether by design or intent. I have to say the phrase ‘mass psychosis’ came to mind earlier when I drove by someone walking alone with their dog with a mask on. No one was within a kilometre of this person.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Nothing in the article to support your claim about needing to be vaccinated to buy food in the supermarket?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    Ok have amended that but not ruled out, could happen yet.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Where is the proof out of interest that people medically unable to take the vaccine are not included in the unvaccinated figures?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,580 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    A Doctor educating a Politician, yet it's typical that the Politician is disagreeing, even though they have zero personal knowledge on the subject.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    Cases and positivity rate falling in Denmark now. Positivity below 8%

    https://www.thelocal.dk/20220108/in-numbers-has-the-omicron-covid-19-wave-peaked-in-denmark/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    For those who can't see it: https://web.archive.org/web/20220108173112/https://www.thelocal.dk/20220108/in-numbers-has-the-omicron-covid-19-wave-peaked-in-denmark/

    That's great news.

    Also, find it mad how they say "down from the sky high rates of close to 12 percent". If only they knew...



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    They are basing that positivity rate off a level of testing about 8 times ours, so possibly ours would be similar if we did that many tests too?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I had a read back through some of her tweets. I can understand her hysteria. It seems to me that she is speaking from her own situation. Olive mentioned having children who are high risk and one became quite unwell after contracting Covid. I have sympathy for her as she is no doubt terrified.

    However given her platform if I were her I'd take a step back. It's all emotion, fear, panic. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of common sense or understanding of scientific evidence. It's very much 'I'm frightened for my family so all of you should be too'.

    Also she is full of blame and anger towards the Government. I'm familiar myself with that kind of thinking but it's usually because we feel powerless and are lashing out.



  • Posts: 533 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Denmark's likely a very good predictor of what's going to happen here. They've similarly very high vaccine uptake, with mostly the mostly the same vaccines and spacing of doses, a fairly small population and similar kinds of densities, similar weather, similar working patterns etc.

    While they're not absolutely identical, they've more in common than many other comparable countries.

    They also have unusually huge testing capacity, which gives a sense of detail.

    They're a week or 10 days or so ahead of us, so hopefully we might see the positivity rates drop in same way.



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  • Posts: 533 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd just add, one thing I have never ever understood about the way we are surveying how well countries are performing is that there has been no attempt to come up with a standardised, random, representative sampling mythology.

    I would expect something like this:

    • Ring fence maybe 5% of the testing capacity.
    • Volunteer households / individuals
    • Representative of different types of household, geographical locations, housing types, work types, commute / travel types, age profiles etc.
    • Test weekly or maybe twice weekly
    • An additional totally random sample just based on geography e.g. setup booths in shopping centres / outside supermarkets and ask people to just give an anonymous swab.

    If every country in the EU or ECDC area did that we could compare like-for-like and get a true picture of scale of spread. Because as it stands we are getting all sorts of selection and self-selection biases, e.g. people who are going because they've a positive antigen tests or symptoms. It would be quite surprising if that didn't turn out a high positivity rate as they're quite obviously highly likely to be positive.

    You're also seeing totally different testing mythologies and capacities being used in different countries and comparisons that just don't make sense. Country X has 20,000 per day and country Y has 5000 a day, yet we don't examine anything about how the testing works or what the scale of testing is or anything really. You're also still getting raw number comparisons without any references to population, both in terms of international comparisons and even county-by-county here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What's all the fuss about the Joe Rogan interview with a doctor? I haven't heard it but I heard it was taken down off Twitter and Facebook. Why was it so inflammatory? I don't have an account for Facebook or Twitter but I would have thought it was full of contentious 'stuff'. What ever happened to freedom of speech in the USA?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,786 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Undermining trust in politicians???


    That must have been fabricated in a lab somewhere because surely that never existed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,786 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,786 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Why did we stop talking about the ‘R’ number.


    that was something being constantly trotted out and now not a word of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    It is lacking since the start. One of my biggest bug bears. A few half hearted attempts were made. Speaking for Germany attempts at it were actively squashed even.

    Call me a CT guy but the only reason I can think of why anyone would deliberately act so un-scientifically is because they fear the results of such methodical testing would not be alarming enough.

    Just another symptom in along list of manipulation with definitions, numbers, selective truths. whatnot, the whole shebang. Every lever that could be bent was bent in order to 'up' this thing, right from the start and it never stopped.

    Once you realise this its hard to take this pandemic seriously. I mean it cant be that bad if we can afford to leave the best tools in the drawer to protect 'the message', can it?

    Post edited by CalamariFritti on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭ganoga


    not sure if the interview was taken down. The doctor being interviewed, dr Robert Malone, has had his twitter account suspended. I haven't searched for or listened to the interview myself because I'm not a fan of Joe Rogan

    edit: looks like it was taken down. Guess I'll go watch it out of spite 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭VillageIdiot71


    Can’t help noticing. That Doctor just calmly states his case, and freely acknowledges others may have a different view.

    Reaction on the interweb to him is all ad hominem abuse. ‘What would he say to relatives of people who died’ and that sort of thing.

    I haven’t seen anyone actually respond to what he says - for example, no one id out there saying he is substantially wrong in what he says about the frequency of jabs needed, if this mandatory approach is to make sense, as distinct from making good optics.



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  • Posts: 533 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I’m not really buying into a conspiracy theory on it, but the data quality is pretty poor. I see media reports all the time that would get you a fail in a 1st year stats exam for any decent social science, economics or marketing course.

    The methodologies are often so bad you could drive a bus through the holes in them and the interpretation and presentation is often even worse.

    There’s been a lot of slamming anything at all together, often though crowdsourced data sites online.

    Also seems like the medical data is maybe useful for diagnostic or treatment purposes, but it’s failing to produce a useful picture of what’s going on.

    If anything, it’s left me in no doubt that public health, certainly as it’s presented in the media at present, seems to inhabit a bubble that’s not using modern data analysis methodologies and just looks archaic and chaotic to anyone who’s ever dealt with big scale data analysis. There’s an exceptionalism in medicine that seems to keep trying to reinvent the wheel or ignoring the techniques, experience and expertise of other professions and other sectors when it should be leaning heavily on them.

    I’m seeing a lot of commentary on areas that are actually engineering or social and behavioural science coming from GPs and random medical professionals in a way they wouldn’t tolerate a marketing professor discussing ear surgery.

    You’ve also got people like anaesthesiologists and random surgeons and stuff commenting, with absolute confidence about obscure areas of virology and vaccine production that they’re unlikely to know all that much about.

    I’m not saying that everyone should absolutely stay in their lane, or refrain from commenting at all, but they do need to accept that some specialities, professions and areas of research and sectors have huge specialist knowledge. It’s not all common sense any more than I would take advice from a dentist on my heart or a cardiologist on a root canal.

    I mean from a data analysis point of view the likes of the CSO and Eurostat should be across this stuff at this stage, designing survey and sampling methodologies that might produce some useful data.



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