Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Energy infrastructure

Options
16566687071238

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,017 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The Gulf Stream (AMOC) has been slowing for at least a thousand years and started slowing more rapidly in the mid 1800's, so it's not as a result of AGW from inreased atmospheric CO2. Furthermore, there seems to be a 400 or so year hysteresis effect between changes in the AMOC and major climate effects.

    The Paleo record indicates the AMOC has always been very variable and closely associated with glaciation events. There is no way it's past variability had anything to do with human activity so blaming any current change, excuse the pun, on humans now, is horse manure, particularly since there is likely a 400 year lag the other way between climate and it's effect on the current.

    I do think that we are more likely heading for the next glaciation event than heading for a global rising temperature catastrophe. Mind you, from a human standpoint, a glaciation event cooling would be a catastrophe wheras a few °C rise in global temperature wouldn't and would see in more good times as per the Medieval and Roman warm periods when humanity flourished and times were good.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The Gulf Stream is being affected by the melting of the glaciers in the arctic regions and the retreat of the northern tundra areas. These are being affected by global warming caused by human activity. The Jet Stream is also being affected by human activity, and the JS and the GS changes may well be linked.

    We only found out about the Jet Stream when we started flying Jet aircraft.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    A lot of apartments use electricity because it would cost developers more to follow the safety regulations for gas.

    Insulation should be used to replace heating where practicable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,560 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Where did I say anything about humans affecting the Gulf Stream?

    Please quote that.

    thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Honestly , batteries can do most of the peaking... Allowing combined cycle to be the most efficient back up - but chances are any new back up will be open cycle gas-

    That does leave us very exposed to both gas price and gas supply ... I hope they'll just mothball moneypoint and tarbert with fuel on hand - just as an insurance policy .

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,560 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So do we know how much gas we import?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,173 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Japanese weather balloons recorded it in the 1920s,



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,392 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    “Japanese weather balloons recorded it in the 1920s”

    I hope people don’t mind an interesting side note, but the Japanese used this knowledge during WW2 to send high altitude balloons with incendiary explosives attached along the jet stream to bomb mainland US!

    A pregnant lady and her 5 children were the only victims of these bombs. The only combat casualties on the mainland US of the war.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,392 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    At the moment about 40%. Though in future as the Corrib gas field runs out, that will increase.

    On the other hand as we add more wind, the amount of gas we use will decrease. Eventually, hopefully, hydrogen, insulation, heat pumps and geothermal will replace it completely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,560 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Not sure how effective heat pumps are in any house that’s not A rated.

    Heat pumps won’t replace gas as a primary heating source anytime soon as the cost to bring a 1960s house up to airtight A standards is astronomical.

    Gas prices are going to be a major issue going forward.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,173 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Get the notion EU will gift Putin Ukraine in exchange for fixed gas price,Merkel gone and the new guy seems weak



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,017 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I get the impression the US isn't happy about Nordstream 2 and isn't about to let the EU make any such decision, as it's not theirs to make.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The rush to ban gas and oil boilers is bound to cause issues in the medium term. The expense is also pretty ridiculous. Friend of mine built an A-rated house and while he is happy enough with the air pump he says he probably wouldn't go with it if starting over. The insulation makes the biggest difference.

    There's too many use cases where it just doesn't make sense. Particularly in small houses, my place is drafty but 20 quid a week covers my gas on the coldest weeks and I WFH. Spending half the value of the house for tiny savings just doesn't make any sense.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If he's in an A rated home, anything more than a heat pump would be just plain silly



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    One of the reasons is that the US is exporting LNG to Lithuania, Poland, and lots of other European countries.

    The gas we import comes from Norway and the North Sea via Scotland.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,392 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "Not sure how effective heat pumps are in any house that’s not A rated."

    SEAI recommend a BER B2 or better.

    Though I do wonder if we could see that change in time. If gas prices keep rising, it might be possible to operate the heat pump in less well insulated homes (you use more electricity) and/or it might just make the investment in insulation worth it even in those older homes.

    Of course there are other options, only a few days ago it was posted about commercial scale geothermal, which could deliver district level heating.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I doubt it tbh, if gas prices go up then so will electricity prices. Heating won't be allowed to get much cheaper (aside from corrections from recent peak) any time soon.

    EDIT: I think we've wasted a chance at picking off low-hanging fruit for a good while now. While big insulation jobs are great and all there's a shocking number of places still that are drafty etc. that €500 Would make a massive difference. But unfortunately the nonsense BER rating is all that matters. Can think of a couple of people who had their windows resealed and said it made a massive difference. It was replacing like with like so would have no effect on BER.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    He's into his automation etc. and has data and reckons the amount of heat needed is tiny thanks to the insulation and he'd rather have a oil burner that he could service himself for however many decades to come. He's not losing sleep over it but the difference in upfront cost won't be recovered.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,392 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    “I doubt it tbh, if gas prices go up then so will electricity prices.”

    For the moment yes, but not in the long term. The idea is to wean ourselves off using gas for electricity generation, which would make it cheaper to heat homes with electricity then gas.

    You already see this in Norway, where despite much lower temperatures they mostly don’t use gas for heating, instead they mostly use insulation + heat pumps. Their electricity is cheaper then gas, due to it mostly being generated by renewables (mostly hydro).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,560 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So we don’t import any gas from Russia?

    Also what percentage do we import?

    How self reliant are we?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,017 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I found a dissertation that put the Norwegian use of domestic heat pumps at over a quarter of housholds, which of course means that more than half, don't, so what are you basing your claim of 'most' on?

    "Heat pumps’ energy efficiency has also helped them to become desirable as consumer items. The number of heat pumps installed in Norwegian homes has greatly increased over the past decade. Over a quarter of households in Norway now own some form of heat pump, the majority of which are air-to-air pumps (Halvorson and Larsen 2013:4). Despite the theoretical benefits of heat pumps’ energy efficiency there is still debate about whether their use in domestic settings actually leads to a net reduction in energy use. A recent study published by Statistics Norway found that the actual energy-savings of homes with heat pumps was close to zero (Halvorson and Larsen 2013), and a study conducted in Denmark produced similar results (Christensen et al. 2013). Studies like these are raising difficult 2 questions regarding the actual, as opposed to theorised, effects of heat pumps on domestic energy consumption. "




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    No , not directly but there's a knock on effect on prices.

    https://www.seai.ie/data-and-insights/seai-statistics/monthly-energy-data/gas/

    Very roughly 50% from Corrib field which is emptying but Barryroe might be developed. And very roughly 50% of gas is used for generating electricity. Green Hydrogen could be used to stretch gas in domestic supplies and reduce demand for it for electrical production.

    2021 Energy in Ireland https://www.seai.ie/publications/Energy-in-Ireland-2021_Final.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,560 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Hmmmm so we are 50% reliant on importing gas at ever increasing prices and the other 50% is a dwindling resource but we may develop Barryroe which would keep us at 50% self sufficient.

    That sounds like increasing gas prices to me going forward.



  • Posts: 3,842 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ? Its not the EU's decision but it is the US's decision to make? Is that your point.



  • Posts: 3,842 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gas prices are set by the world market, not by the local market. And as we build out wind, we of course will need less gas.

    Even now with very few wind farms built relative to what we could achieve with I regularly see us above 50% and often 70%. Today as midnight 7/8th Jan I see this:


    system generation.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    The US just want to keep Germany and Russia down its in there strategic interests



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    The thing about Norway is there stinking rich, they have a massive sovereign wealth fund.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,560 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    How will we need less gas for domestic heating due to building more wind farms?

    Heat pumps?

    They don’t work in the overwhelming existing housing stock we have.



  • Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I never complain about mistakes in other people's post because I make enough of my own but you have used "there" instead of "they're" in two posts in quick succession.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,017 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Apparently, all owners of existing housing, including those with multi decade mortgages, car loans, have a near infinite supply of spare cash which they can use to retrofit their homes to an A rating and the tens of thousands required to retrofit heat pumps. Didn't you get the memo?



Advertisement
Advertisement