Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

1363364366368369757

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Why would I come up with a policy to fix a problem you brought up? You aren't going to get away with that blatant deflection. There is absolutely no need to triage based on race, as is being done here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    Its not directly to do with Biden but it is to do with the Democrats as a whole and the philosophy behind it is one that the Biden administration is wholeheartedly behind, remember that a number of Federal financial relief schemes were found to be illegally discriminatory against white people.


    Also realized another way that this policy highlights how race theory based thinking has become embedded and how it's not a neutral evidence based reading of risks. Males are disproportionately at risk from Covid, a fact thats true globally and is more evident when you consider age profiles (more old women than old men).

    A neutral evidence based approach that used broad demographic indicators to prioritize care rather than assessing individual risk would include race but would also include sex.

    We know this hasn't happened though and it's likely to do with the fact that the ideological mindset behind the guidance issued considers males a privileged group.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    It's a racist policy that has occurred under his leadership. He should condemn it. It is also the second policy that is race based that has occurred under his leadership, the first being deemed illegal and considered racist by the judge. There is a (tentative) pattern forming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭Christy42


    It isn't deflection. You said you didn't want to do nothing. So what would you do instead?


    Interestingly we already had race based triage but it was hidden behind other metrics and didn't generate as much fuss. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8445412/


    As an aside the cdc have been pumping specific resources into why men receive worse outcomes to covid as opposed to women and what should be done about it. Similar to what created this rule.


    https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2020/20_0247.htm

    Post edited by Christy42 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    I don't know what I would do. What I wouldn't do is instigate racist policies. You seem to take this as wanting to 'ignore' the issue, for reasons I guess only you can know. If you think triaging based on race is perfectly fine, then that says more about you then anyone else.


    The post at the beginning of this page outlines why this policy is racist.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Tell me you don't know what racism is without telling me.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    A meaningless, yet resolutely ironic, soundbite.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Ha! Double irony for calling the written word a soundbite.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    And again a post of no substance. It is you who is in favour of discriminating against people based on race, remember.

    Now that you've decided to re-engage, can you try answering some of the questions that were posed to you:

    From Celticfire:

    'What science have I acknowledged?'

    'I'll ask again what's the medical basis to assign a risk to someone's medical history and ration treatment based on being white or non white?'

    And from my good self:

    'Are there no poor white people?'



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,496 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    If anyone wishes to discuss policies of a particular state they can start a thread on it

    This one relates to the Biden Administration - that deals with issues at the federal level

    Now back on topic



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Biden’s federal equity plan sounds an awful like that plan from New York.

    It is therefore the policy of my Administration that the Federal Government should pursue a comprehensive approach to advancing equity for all, including people of color and others who have been historically underserved, marginalized, and adversely affected by persistent poverty and inequality. Affirmatively advancing equity, civil rights, racial justice, and equal opportunity is the responsibility of the whole of our Government

    Equity is exactly what that policy in New York is seeking too. One and the same exact thing. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-advancing-racial-equity-and-support-for-underserved-communities-through-the-federal-government/

    conversations should happen in public around here, not private.



  • Posts: 714 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    After doing a few minutes of research there, Biden set up the ‘COVID 19 health equity task force’ in January ‘21. They released their final report just a month ago in November recommending that Biden and other health authorities should implement their equity plan. The same plan that New York implemented. This is coming from the federal level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr



    Sounds to me like that directly links the Biden Administeration to these racist health directives.

    I assume that the greater good has already been invoked in defence of this racism, great leap forward carry on 🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,986 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Presumably income level is the largest determinant in healthcare access, in NY and in the US in general. Any policy seeking to address equity in services should be means based, yet time and again the issues are framed thru a lens of racial bias that only leads to division.



  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hmm, you're pretty much ignoring where it states "and others" which would cover other groups including economically disadvantaged etc. It's pretty telling that you've omitted the definition which is pretty broad and accounts for a pretty broad range of circumstances.


    For purposes of this order: (a) The term “equity” means the consistent and systematic fair, just, and impartial treatment of all individuals, including individuals who belong to underserved communities that have been denied such treatment, such as Black, Latino, and Indigenous and Native American persons, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders and other persons of color; members of religious minorities; lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ+) persons; persons with disabilities; persons who live in rural areas; and persons otherwise adversely affected by persistent poverty or inequality.


    (b) The term “underserved communities” refers to populations sharing a particular characteristic, as well as geographic communities, that have been systematically denied a full opportunity to participate in aspects of economic, social, and civic life, as exemplified by the list in the preceding definition of “equity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,448 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    It's amazing how the President is suddenly responsible for everything when his name isn't Trump 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Are you in favour of race being used to decide if a person is entitled to medical treatment?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Isn't the problem they're trying to solve that race is already being used?

    If it wasn't, then outcomes would be equal (barring any genetic predisposition to a disease which I'm not aware of), but they're not.

    In which case, are you in favour of race being removed completely? and then how would you achieve that end goal?

    I'm not a big fan of positive discrimination but you don't seem to realise that you're arguing in favor of it by maintaining the status quo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    An inability to answer that question with an emphatic "no" is the problem

    Very telling, to quote the poster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    What policy was in place that made race a factor before this one?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    You tell me, what led to the current imbalance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Note the avoidance and wiggling, very telling 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Answering a question with a question. Telling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,213 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    But that isn't what this is. It is identifying those groups that have historically suffered from lack of access, lack equality.

    It isn't saying whites can get access, but in targeting groups they have identified those that appear to be less able and or willing to access it.

    Much the same as they target obese people, or older people.

    There are no white people getting refused.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,510 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Socrates answered questions with questions. May or may not apply here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭Celticfire


    They have designated two groups of people. White and non white. Non whites get a risk assigned based on nothing more than the colour of their skin. What is the medical basis for this? You bring up obese and elderly as if it's the same thing. At least there is a medical reason to assign risk to obese or elderly people. There is a shortage of this medicine and it is being rationed to people with a higher risk which by default puts every non white person in the front of the queue. There is no medical reason whatsoever for this policy and if there is I'd love to hear how something so arbitrary as white/ non white is a medical decision as to who gets a rationed medicine.



  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Whitehouse statement from above is what we're discussing.... That covers a lot of different scenarios. So state level in New York is irrelevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The first step is to verify if there is an imbalance at all and what led there and then figure out if a policy is needed or can fix it.

    You seemed to go straight to the faux outrage step without anything else first, so best to establish what you really believe and see if the policy meets the goals it sets out to.

    My bet is that your trying to explain the full loop will expose your faux outrage, but maybe you can show otherwise :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    The first step is to answer a simple question on a matter of personal principle that most people would be able to answer without hesitation

    And yet its not being answered.🤔

    Are you in favour of race being used to decide if a person is entitled to medical treatment?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    The first step in any discussion is to answer the question posed to you, and not side step it by asking your own.



Advertisement