Schools to close again.. Covid

Wildly Boaring · 02-01-2022 11:06AM

Any teachers / principals know what sort of absences a staff could cope with and operate safely.

I was working all day yesterday with our CEO. We have several construction sites live. Our supply chain (subbies and materials) estimate 50% absences if we were open now. Hoping for 33% absences for Wednesday.

We are not going to open Tuesday. As we need all management in. That way we can reconcile our own staffing levels and available tests.

We'll be doing 100% antigen testing at the gate. And fully expect positives.

Basically a site can open safely with less staff. And we can shift a couple managers about to keep show on the road. We'll just be slower.

I just cannot see with the current levels of isolations and people on restricted movement how any school will operate.

How will the principal even know the staffing levels he/she has on a given day? Or is it a matter of sending all kids home at a certain absentee level?

Bananaleaf · 02-01-2022 11:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404628#Comment_118404628

Every classroom that has students in it will need to have an adult supervising it.

Classes or groups cannot be merged, for a number of reasons, Covid, different class groups/subjects and physical space in a room being 3 off the top of my head.

There are teachers available, subs whose only job it is to cover classes and then teachers who are teaching their own classes but have a couple of 40min periods free a week where they could stand in. These free classes are not in endless supply, but there has been funding provided to schools to find more of these hours (if they can)

With isolating teachers, a principal will have some kind of an idea about absence numbers as days go on, but yes, they will have no way of knowing the full impact for sure until that morning.

If things get very bad you could see something like Transition Year students being sent home and then teachers of those classes being used to sub in for isolating teachers.

If that happens, there would be no live classes at home for TYs as teachers would be tied up elsewhere.

am_zarathustra · 02-01-2022 11:39AM

I think keeping the schools closed for the extra 2 days could help. Isolating and picking up the virus in the days around Christmas means more staff will be out of isolation by the 10th who won't be by the 5th. Be a classic dept move to just leave this up to the schools though, essentially leave everyone at the mercy of whatever the principal thinks or staffing can feasibly allow. The DOE lack of leadership strikes again.

Sending a rake of kids in for a couple of days where they will likely have free classes and with significant levels of student absense seems mad. Even those extra couple of days, which we can make back later, would really help. Countdown is really 14 days from mass mixing, assuming it was over Christmas the 10th just makes more sense.

The news on omicron is at least looking positive

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/02/new-studies-reinforce-belief-that-omicron-is-less-likely-to-damage-lungs?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2YbHAh6JxGLNgscQZMyF_jXmYNJQpw9tu9ZbndAsYaUrpI85zhPN9fNlk#Echobox=1641110738

am_zarathustra · 02-01-2022 11:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404676#Comment_118404676

Based on our current numbers I'd wonder about opening at all. Very little s and s, maybe a few days worth left. If absense is running at 20-30% in a school it's effectively not really a runner. Keep the exam years is probably a solid plan but, depending on who's out, that could be difficult too. As outlined above, simple solutions don't work in secondary with the complexities of timetabling.

On the numbers that mean you have to close, again it's difficult to say. If someone with a few hours if support or an ancillary role like BFL is out, no issue. You could take all of them out and the school would run. Now take out your Irish, French, German, Maths, Geog ect teachers with 21.20 on their timetables every year and it's looking a lot shakier a lot faster.

The lack of teachers is something no one seems vaguely concerned about in the media.......it will literally be the reason kids are sent home now, I wonder will that make people sit up and take notice. It's chronic in urban areas and it is absolutely leading to a difference in the quality of education geographically in the country

km79 · 02-01-2022 11:49AM

I do think in this current situation the two(well 4 including the weekend ) could be valuable

There is likely to be a lot of staff absences for the first two days due to Xmas gatherings . They will have begun to abate by the Monday to a more manageable level

Otherwise you will likely have the scenario in some schools of students being sent home again Thursday morning

Its probably the prudent and sensible thing to do with case numbers expected to peak next week .

But it can be for no more than those two days .

Wildly Boaring · 02-01-2022 11:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404676#Comment_118404676

And primary completely reliant on subs?

Or do they end up reliant on unqualified eg SNA?

I'd say lot of subs be reticent going in this week and risk having to isolate for 10 days, when paid day rate?

joebloggs32 · 02-01-2022 11:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404601#Comment_118404601

I got it on WhatsApp from one of my colleagues trying to catch us all out. I spotted the date instantly 🤣🤣

am_zarathustra · 02-01-2022 11:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404784#Comment_118404784

SNAs are def being used at secondary, I wouldn't be sure on primary because they are younger and it's the whole day. SET are def being used, the provision for kids with additional needs has been decimated.....again without much word from the DOE.

From what I know subs aren't moving around anyway. It's basically impossible to get any teacher in Dublin, if they are in a school they are on full hours subbing. There is very little to no movement in the system. Dips being used to a huge extent too, and people who literally just have a degree, no actual teaching qualification. People should be pissed, if their nurse wasn't qualified they'd be up in arms but some lad with a degree in business and no pedagogical knowledge is grand teaching exam years Irish? Madness really

Bananaleaf · 02-01-2022 12:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404784#Comment_118404784

I don't know about primary, sorry. But, you make a good point about the reluctance of subs.

One of my friends is a primary teacher on career break (or parental leave, not sure which) and was subbing, but they have decided not to go back until Feb to wait for things to die down.

This could well be the thought of a lot of subs, depending on how much they need the hours of course.

Bananaleaf · 02-01-2022 12:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404819#Comment_118404819

To be fair to my principal, SET and SNAs haven't been touched at all.

We have heaps of unqualified subs though. A lot, as you say, who are from different sectors entirely with no desire to teach at all. None of them, to my knowledge, are teaching though, just supervising classrooms. The end result is the same however, low to no levels of teaching/learning.

am_zarathustra · 02-01-2022 12:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404965#Comment_118404965

It's so dependent on the leadership in the schools whether it done alright, good your principal is standing strong on that.

I often wonder what they do in the DOE, local arrangements are de riguer in schools, possibly for the better, but it begs the questions why they couldn't order a few HEPA filters ect

02-01-2022 01:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404773#Comment_118404773

Hmm I'm not sure that will get much support. I wouldn't be overly opposed to it as long as we were guaranteed that they would 100 per cent reopen on the 10th. I think some teachers want longer though for various reasons. Probably the end of January or something silly like that.

02-01-2022 01:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118394944#Comment_118394944

My kid had 3 teachers, during that last period.

1st did reading videos and sessions. Did video walkthroughs of maths and Irish, so kids could work along with her ( and parents could see what was coming). Basically recorded herself going through the important sections.

2nd did a 10 minute class call, a week, and some nonsense online resourced "homework" sent out on Monday morning.

3rd teacher had them in class and home. All class work was sent home with interactive puzzles matching the classwork sent online.

Several cases of teachers taking zero interest in the idea of actually working from home, in my own social circles and all over this thread. It was far from isolated cases

teachinggal123 · 02-01-2022 01:53PM

Take note teachers - yet another example from a parent @[Deleted User] who says:

“Several cases of teachers taking zero interest in the idea of actually working from home, in my own social circles and all over this thread. It was far from isolated cases.”

BuT, buT, bUt TeaCHeR bAshiNg!!!

Aleppo_rex · 02-01-2022 02:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405273#Comment_118405273

God do you ever STOP???

you’re a lazy teacher who did the bare minimum for your pupils and you want to go around preaching that you’re brilliant for doing it because others were, instead of doing the best you could, not the minimum you could scrape by with!

You’re an absolute disgrace to the profession and you should be absolutely ashamed of your behaviour and of boasting about it. The cheek of you to even show you face in school, I’d be mortified if I was you.

If I was your principal I’d have given you your written warning by now and hope you leave for greener pastures!

teachinggal123 · 02-01-2022 02:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405350#Comment_118405350

A written warning for what exactly? There are no sanctions for teachers who don’t teach online.

Aleppo_rex · 02-01-2022 02:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405418#Comment_118405418

She again confirms she didn’t teach online! Jesus wept…

Wildly Boaring · 02-01-2022 02:22PM

Seems to be the equivalent to the posters who declare that they cycle but believe cyclists should be flogged daily at dawn for their very existance.

teachinggal123 · 02-01-2022 02:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405427#Comment_118405427

A written warning for what exactly?

And why are you calling me lazy? I did full teaching during the last lockdown.

am_zarathustra · 02-01-2022 02:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405440#Comment_118405440

This thread is about school reopening, not what was or wasn't done in the past. You are literally lurking and waiting to make the same comment over and over and its completely pointless. If you have any thoughts on epidemiology or provision of cover or the factors impacting schools returning in general we are all ears!

Please just start your own thread called "teachers didn't do online learning" to asuage your own guilt. Most of us are focused on the issues facing our society and how it will effect our school communities and generally (very obvious from the threads at the time) People on here worked extremely hard and we're very generous with their skill sets.

teachinggal123 · 02-01-2022 02:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405492#Comment_118405492

I’m not going to be lectured by you (or anyone else on this thread) about what I can/can’t post here.

If you have any issue with my posts you can report me. Until then, I’ll post as often as I want (and stay within forum rules of course).

Edit: thanks for the idea of starting a whole new thread about parents & teachers experience of teaching online! I might actually do that :)

Aleppo_rex · 02-01-2022 02:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405512#Comment_118405512

Whooohooo!

lulublue22 · 02-01-2022 03:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405512#Comment_118405512

Please do - it will allow you to share your experiences with like minded people , provide a valuable platform for assessing how shite educational provision was during school closures while freeing this thread up to discuss the current issues at hand - the potential impact of omicron on the functioning of schools. Win win for everyone.

Five Eighth · 02-01-2022 03:36PM

It's true that hospital numbers are rising but...I would like to delve deeper into the headline stat.

Any answers anywhere to the following:

How many of those in hospital with Covid are unvaccinated?

How many are in hospital only because of Covid?

How many have underlying health conditions?

What is the age profile of those in hospital with Covid?

How many were admitted to hospital for reasons other than Covid and then contracted the virus in hospital?

Also, ICU numbers seen fairly static.

We must as a society start living with Covid. What is the point of nationwide multiple vaccinations if our response to every Covid wave is to revert to lockdown?

What is the trade-off between the benefits of closing schools and colleges and the drawbacks to society (most importantly the psychological/emotional/developmental/mental health etc. of children and young adults)?

Schools and colleges must stay open.

am_zarathustra · 02-01-2022 04:20PM

If ICU rates stay stable it's brilliant news, bodes well for the next few months. I'm just not sure schools will have the staff needed to open this Thursday, I know we will struggle and rolling closures or random classes being sent home is not ideal either. The following week we might be ok, people are being more cautious, the situation should improve even without school closures provided everyone stays the course for the next few weeks/months.

Staffing is just going to be a recurring issue, we were only beginning to see it in December and that's with s and s still available, I've no idea how we get to March! I mean we will, we will muddle on as always but having kids back in a classroom less than 14 days from Christmas day just seems like an unnecessary extra gamble when it would cost 2 days at Easter to close for the extra couple of days needed for an infection break

lulublue22 · 02-01-2022 04:42PM

Random sample · 02-01-2022 04:47PM

The government could be using this time to sort out sending out antigen tests to all students so they can test weekly/ twice weekly for the next few weeks.

When will schools know if they have enough staff? Principals are unlikely to o contact teachers before Thursday to find out who’s isolating/restricting so won’t feasibly know their own situation until Thursday morning.

combat14 · 02-01-2022 05:03PM

exactly will be very difficult situation in many schools on thursday e.g. the gardai are reporting 18+% absence of their staff, firestations missing 15% - more than likely many schools will face a similar situation - parents will only have dropped their kids and will have to come back and collect them again!! crazy stuff..

add to that the high risk of spreading covid further given the pcr testing systems almost complete collapse - it is madness to open schools at present