M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

I don't post often here (barely ever in fact), but I read these threads very regularly. As someone who reads these to get latest updates, plans, pictures etc. can I just say I'm absolutely sick to death or your petty arguing.

Christ in Heaven can they just build this road already and prove people right or wrong and be done with it. Travel around Europe and see how many motorways are built everywhere. Thank God Ireland is not like that. Building this one single road won't change that. Maybe it's wrong decision, but it's a decision. Build it. Move on.

Wait, didn't you just start by saying this road WON'T induce demand? Which is it? I don't have skin in the game, so to speak, but you can't say "it won't induce demand" then follow it up with "I never drive that way now, but I would drive that way if the road was built". That's two opposing arguments???

The summer before COVID I travelled from Dublin to Aran Islands on a Friday (6pm ferry). The quickest way for me to get across the city (at start of evening rush hour) was to drive directly into the city and use the quays. This is appalling, in my opinion, and doesn't befit a city that wants, and needs, to grow and serve many needs, including that of workers, shoppers and tourists.

Induced demand can relate to anything. It's just a supply/demand phenomenon.

If you make more space for cars and make it easier for people to use their cars, then people will use their cars more. It applies across all sorts of supply/demand scenarios. You can even see it with, for example, cycle infrastructure. When they put in good cycle infrastructure in an area, people usually cycle more. It's pretty interesting because it mostly operates on a subconscious level: people often don't even notice themselves making a choice.

Similarly with this ring road. It will likely result in more car trips, and it can't all just be written off as a byproduct of growth. Many will just be making more trips because it's much easier to do so.

Yes, you're describing a bypass again there. Again, most people on this thread aren't against the concept of a bypass.

But the proposed road is an outer distributor, not a bypass. Its purpose is primarily to facilitate local city traffic to get to other parts of the city, according to the design studies. It will allow development of the city. It's not intended to be protected as a bypass.

By all means, join us in arguing that that concept sounds like lunacy.

Interesting!!! Think I see the argument there and might agree. If you compare the distance between junctions to that of the M50 or other city bypasses, such as in Europe, the GCRR is certainly not a bypass.

I still say build it and get on with it. It's been too long. But you've definitely enlightened me there.

I have to admit, after a back and forth I had yesterday, I fully see and agree with the issues raised here in relation to induced demand. I hadn't realized the road is being built as a distributor road, it is not a bypass. There are far too many junctions to make this a bypass. This road will facilitate more people commuting by car.

I still say built it. It's been too long. Enhancements can be made in future to improve traffic (if / when needed), similar to the N11 / M11 which have recently been proposed. The proposed changes on the N11 are specifically removing its use as a distributor road.

20years to get to this point in Galway and it's the wrong design. What a joke. But we're here now, can we just get on with it and built it? Don't try and stop it at this stage.

An Bord Pleanala have granted this permission, there is no issue with the design. That’s a moot point. What I’m surprised at is the amount of posters who actively want to destroy Galway into the future, many of whom clearly don’t live there.

Fair play for contributing in such an open and honest manner.

This road's design likely wouldn't even be as big a problem if it wasn't being built on its own, with no supporting measures. Many of the downsides of this proposed road can be worked against, as per the Galway Transport Strategy. They literally lay out the phases of development that should happen. If you can, google the Galway Transport Strategy, scroll down to the Executive Summary Report and check out page 91.

There, in a single image, it shows why people are bleating about the bus network, the park & rides, the demand management, etc. This road was never intended to be the only solution or even the foundation stone. It was intended as a piece of an overall system, and not even the first piece. So when you're saying "build it, and resolve the commuter problems", now you can also join us in saying "yes build a road but please get the bits of the Galway Transport Strategy that are needed done ASAP before it opens please!".

The mantra has been "we'll do them after this road, we need the road first". But that won't work. If you're struggling to take road space from X amount of current road users, you'll struggle more to take road space from X+Y amount of road users. There's unfortunately no alternative to the painful task of prioritising sustainable transport. This has fallen by the wayside in the effort to get the road built. And there you can hopefully see why many people here in the infrastructure forum are uncomfortable looking at this plan.

Anyway, thanks again for being so constructive in your replies.

I would argue that a road you can't make progress on due to congestion won't be described as "functioning well".

The TII publication "NATIONAL ROADS NETWORK INDICATORS 2019" published in April 2020 describes "unstable flow" and "forced or breakdown flow" on both roads. The M50 is described as "stable", "free flow" or "reasonably free flow" for around 14 hours a day. The N40 was described as "forced or breakdown" flow twice daily for around 5 hours in total. In fairness, the N40 did appear to function pretty well for around 18 or 19 hours a day.

In the Galway context, if the new Ring Road is bumper to bumper for a few hours a day, I don't think people will describe it as functioning well either. Let's be fair about it! That's kind of what they have right now, I'd argue. If they're trying to bypass the city's congestion, but they end up stuck in city congestion, then it's not really doing what they'd have hoped for, I'd have said.

Most people who want a bypass, want to get to the other side of the city in a predictable, reasonable timeframe. So, being stuck in bumper to bumper traffic doesn't count. As I say, that's roughly what they have already.

The discussion wasn't road V no road though, the discussion was bypass V distributor. Both will see capacity increases, but the majority of people on this thread seem to want a bypass, which is explicitly not what they will be getting, because apparently (according to the design team) there's not enough demand for one.

By all means let's agree, "it's better than nothing for the people driving in Galway", but let's also agree that what's desperately needed in Galway is spending on all of the other stuff that will fix congestion. It doesn't need to be either/or, but the current plan is "this road first and then we can talk about sustainable transport". That won't work, unfortunately.

Pauline was very poor on the radio, the green party really need to up it on their spokespersons. I've no doubt there's a slush fund to go the legal route.