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US Maniac cops at it again, this time in LA.

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,543 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,125 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Police in America is largely a working class profession.

    There is a class snobbery and disdain for them from the modern left in America because of that.

    They could care less than a 1000 Black Americans out of a population of 650k African Americans in Chicago are murdered each year.

    That's not trendy, not something that they want to get involved with.


    It's telling that the highest support for Defund the Police is among young College educated whites. While just over 80% of African Americans want funding maintained or increased.


    The amount of unarmed people shot by police in America is tiny, given the population,the crime levels, etc etc.


    It's quite an achievement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,798 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    i holidayed a few times in the US as a kid and was besotted with the place. To the point of thinking about if I’d like to move there…lots of family there too… Don’t think I’d be bothered with it now… dangerous.

    i find it hard to believe you’d mistake pulling a gun for a taser or visa versa. I’m reading a taser weighs half of what your average handgun weighs and the taser is bright yellow..



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭ChickenDish


    Just watched the video, assault rifle versus bike lock, total over kill. Makes you wonder why so many officers couldn't take on one guy with a bike lock, would have thought superior numbers, tazers, batons and CS spray would have been a wiser choice.

    All the police achieved was the killing of a mentally deranged individual and innocent bystander because of the the default option - overkill.



  • Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They arrived at a scene of a potential mass shooting. He was armed with a heavy duty chain and bike lock. Multiple reports of him having a gun. It was a split second decision. Deploying a tazer or closing to baton range could be very dangerous. Also letting the guy loose another few seconds could have resulted in someone getting brained, or into thr changing area. The officer with the shotgun appeared to have green cartridges, beanbags.

    If this happened in ireland and a detective unit was first on the scene they would have gone in pistols drawn



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    I made the point that we should also publicise deaths of blacks in africa by african policemen.

    Why should we judge white policemen to a higher standard than black policemen?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,018 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Why would she deliberately shoot him, then go for an 'accidental killing' defence, when it was this very admission of making a mistake that made her defence so weak?

    Simple. She would have been charged with second degree murder if she did not go with the 'accidental killing' defence. It was her only option to go for the 'accidental killing' defence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    The argument I am making is that if she had just shot him and claimed it was justified, she likely wouldn’t have been charged with anything at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,018 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    But the cameras were there and caught everything, so she couldn't do that. Maybe 5 or 10 years ago they could have buried it, but that is not an option now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,543 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,709 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    But she was shouting “Tazer” even before she shot him. If you believe she went down the “accidental shooting” route to cover up a moment of mania, how come she was shouting that even before shooting him?



  • Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Most never fire their guns in an entire career, last time I checked.

    But then you have this kind of stuff that just boggles the mind:

    In Vallejo, California, a former police captain is alleging a secretive ritual that has triggered an independent investigation into the city's embattled police force: he says some officers involved in fatal shootings since 2000 bent the tips of their star-shaped badges to mark each time they killed someone in the line of duty.




  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    Back in 2017 a cop killed a woman after she reported what sounded like someone getting attacked outside her house. The woman killed was a decent member of society, she was Australian and a trained vet. Her family were awarded $20m from the City of Minneapolis for the killing. This compensation is second only to the killing of George Floyd who got $27m...

    However you never hear about her for some reason.... by the way she was white and the cop that killed her was from somalia....

    #Justine Damond



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Imagine 13 Russian police officers rushing in like that.

    It wouldn't happen.

    American cops are the worst in the world who seem genuinely terrified going into most situations they attend.

    It's all down to their training and they are all cowards imo.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭Glock17


    American police are the worst in the world?

    Have you ever been outside Europe?



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭ChickenDish


    But it wasn't a mass shooting the police witnessed no gun fire, gun shot victims or people holding a fire arm, or are you saying they can't make a decision based on what's in front of them. Your trying to say this or that could have happened, what happened was trigger happy police killied a mentally unstable man and innocent bystander. What could of happened doesn't matter here, its what did happen and why it it did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I see the victim was a Chilean immigrant. Parents said the police refused to assist the dying girl but I think the cops in America don't try CPR themselves. I think if it is true that American cops don't actually use their guns that much in their whole career than maybe they be bad shots or reckless when they do



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    She well have been already dead but in a lot of these police shooting videos you will see cops standing around having a Chat while waiting for EMTs to arrive,I thought the officer in this shooting used what looks like a M16 a2 rifle fitted with an acog sight , rather than a pistol or short carbine , definitely didn't consider his surroundings before firing multiple times,did they claim one of the bullets ricocheted off the floor?



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭I Blame Sheeple


    I feel like the shooting was totally justified given the circumstances but I do believe this situation highlights major training issues with the police in question.

    Firstly, all that panic when they're trying to get organized before they walk in together to meet the offender is a vital waste of time and just plain embarrassing for any "professional". Secondly, the LEO who shot the offender and killed the little girl had absolutely no consideration for the background behind their target. That's poor training on a very basic level for anybody holding a firearm. Thirdly, why are you using an assault rifle in a supermarket with paper walls against an unarmed man? (Albeit a bike lock is not armed in the American sense and yes I understand they got 911 calls saying he's armed but they got to the scene and still used an AR after confirming no firearm)

    It's tragic for everybody really but this is just the result of shoddy training and bad nerves.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What could of happened doesn't matter here, its what did happen and why it it did.

    Except it does matter. I've noticed this on threads where posters want to bash the American police. They seek to sterilize the environment removing all the considerations that influence what happens, except for aspects that are known in hindsight that seek to show the police as being unreasonable.

    The sheer amount of violence and gun crime is pointed to in other threads, but it's ignored here. Any situation that involves a person being violent can easily escalate in the US, due to the availability of firearms, and the ability to conceal said weapons. There's never been any confusion over how a person is supposed to behave when the police show up. You're told to get down. You get down. You're told to dance a jig, you dance a jig. The culture of the US is such that the police have established themselves as an ultimate authority when trouble occurs. This isn't Ireland, or Europe where the hands of the police are often tied by a wide range of rules... nor is it some place where most people don't have access to anything more dangerous than a melee weapon.

    You've made the case that the person involved was mentally ill, but how would a police officer know that at the time, and more importantly, know that illness is not a dangerous factor in their behavior? I often wonder at the logic on posts to threads such as this.

    What happened was terrible, and the police officer should be properly investigated for the killing of the innocent.. but as long as the US remains such a violent country, with easy access to firearms, any person who refuses to stand down is choosing to place themselves in danger. It's not as if the standard reaction of the police isn't known when confronted with anyone showing violent behavior.

    Yes, the US needs a range of reforms in regards to police behavior, but US culture needs the same attention.



  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭ChickenDish


    When your holding an assault rifle and pointing it at someone with the intention of using it, you better be damn sure you have your facts right.

    A police officers job is to access a situation and make a well informed choice based on what he can see in front of him. Regardless of what reports are coming in, his decision can be a matter of life or death. Your argument is baseless, simply because the facts are undeniable and the decision the police man made was wrong. There was no firearm, you do not shoot a person unless you know categorically they are armed.

    A trigger happy police officer made the wrong call and an innocent died because of it. Saying a police officer made the wrong call is not police bashing. Had the perp been armed it would have been the right call, but he wasn't armed with a gun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    not content with watching it on tv this horrific example of "humanity" gleefully trys to bring some racial violence here ,

    (1) Ruth Coppinger (@RuthCoppingerSP) / Twitter


    (1) Ruth Coppinger (@RuthCoppingerSP) / Twitter


    would ove to see her charged with incitement to racial hatred which is exactly what she is at .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    She's a wagon of the highest order. The Irish version of Diane Abbott.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Watching the store surveillance video, the last person he attacked was lucky, he was absolutely hammering at her with the bike lock as she lay on the ground. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjcdanUhmSY

    When the cops arrived, she's on her back trying to crawl away from her attacker. They see a woman down and bleeding (There's blood on the white tile from an earlier attack and they may be able to see the blood on her head visible in the second photo below), and they know he's armed with something. Reports to them vary from bike lock to gun.

    There's also a shooter's bodycam perspective. It's true he didn't take much time to assess the situation. On the other hand, the cop knows he's dangerous, he's got something black in his hand, and he's maneuvering.

    There's also little indication that there's possible people behind the shelving and wall in the background. It really does come under the heading of 'unfortunate incident.' more than 'manic cop'




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Police are not the judge, jury and executor. His crime is irrelevant here. He was no threat to the police and no threat to any other member of the public the time he was shot. Very much mania cop. Even watching the 4-way officer cam video, the police were all over the place. One idiot going up the downwards escaltor. Scared cowards doing what scared cowards do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭mikethecop




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How many people here have had any interaction with US Cops. My experience of them is fairly limited but was fine. They were reasonable and professional.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're seriously going to use third world countries to compare to? Well, I suppose you're right. The US fits nicely into the list of third world countries.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    i m just posting the stats

    And yes the states are heading that way , a liberal paradise , #defundthepolice 👋👋👋 🤦‍♂️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭source


    It's also not that hard to realise that the ability to pick a decision apart with the benefit of video and time is exactly the opposite of what the officer who took the shot had.

    He had to assess a situation in a split second, something which is a lot more difficult to do than you would expect, and come up with the correct response based on the facts as presented to him at the time.

    In law the word reasonable is used a lot, and it's also misused by some. In court, whether the action is reasonable or not is decided based on the facts and with an instruction to the jury that they must judge whether the action was reasonable going by the information the officer had to hand at the time of the incident.

    There was a great video on YouTube a while back where a civil rights activist was invited by a police department to go through a role play scenario where he was making the decision on whether to shoot or not, gave him a whole new perspective.


    https://youtu.be/yfi3Ndh3n-g



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,018 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    When a cop suspects somebody is reaching for a gun, how can that be a capital offence at the whim of the idiot officer in question?

    How did these idiots suddenly become jury, judge and executioner.

    The reason it does not happen in other countries is because the cop has to be 100% sure in those jurisdictions.

    Not so much in the good old USA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭source


    It most certainly does happen in other countries, also if you look at my first post on this thread you'll see it doesn't happen all that often in the US either. Anyway the reason that it appears to happen more often in the US is that we consume an awful lot of US media, both traditional and social.

    As to why the cop gets to decide if someone dies, well if i was a cop in a country where guns are so prevalent and the decision is to put someone in a box or wind up in one myself then personally the choice is pretty damn easy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,018 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Maybe if American cops were less inclined to interfere and jump in where they are not wanted or needed, there would be a lot less of this taking of life or injury.

    A bit more trust in the community is what's needed. Remember the Australian film crew who were seriously assaulted by cops in full riot gear while filming Trump's visit to the church in Washington DC last year. These cops need to calm the hell down. Escalating where there is no need to.

    Here's another situation that needed to be handled by non idiot cops and wasn't.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭source


    Those goal posts have been very expertly and neatly moved, bravo. I've already said that their training needs to be addressed, but the numbers on police killings in the US don't lie. The chance of being killed by a police officer during an encounter with them in the US is 0.0018459016393443%. This number greatly decreases for the general population to 0.00033972015163309405%.

    The premise of this thread is that US police are maniacs who go around shooting and killing people for no reason, those numbers do not reflect that position. The accidental shooting of a young girl in LA is indeed tragic, but wasn't due to the actions of a blood thirsty cop, which is the picture being portrayed by some in this thread. em

    Also your point on cops being less inclined to interfere and jump in were they are not wanted, well that's kind of their job. Generally speaking police don't just show up and interfere with law abiding citizens. Chances are if the police are there then either someone called them, or they were passing and saw something illegal happening they are duty bound to "interfere" in these situations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    There is a difference between making a mistake and complete incompetence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,282 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I love people saying that the cops in 'Merica need to step back and work more with the community, when there appears to be more and more reports of ambush killings of cops. When that kinda stuff is happening, as a cop you're gonna be on guard the whole time. The public need to cooperate and understand this too, but instead they're just defunding them. It's all gonna come crashing down soon, and the army/national reserve is gonna start being used a lot more. If I was a cop in 'Merica, I'd be working my way towards any other job! Just my 2 cents.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭I Blame Sheeple



    I think a lot of it boils down to training, I really do when I see videos like above. I read a tweet recently that said if a lawyer has to go through 8 years of education to practice law, cops should do something similar to enforce it. I'd be inclined to agree.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BattleCorp1


    If a cop genuinely suspects somebody is reaching for a gun, I would absolutely expect the cop to respond in kind. The ERU/ARU/armed Gardai here would probably do the same. What do you expect them to do...........wait until they are shot to confirm if the other person had a gun or not? We have the benefit of hindsight, but people in that position sometimes only have fractions of a second to respond.

    I would really hate to be a cop in the US. They face being shot any time they are on duty (and off duty). It's a poxy job and the money isn't all that great either. And you have armchair warriors here calling them cowards or others thinking that you can shoot a gun out of someone's hand or maybe that they should take a few belts of a bicycle lock or risk being stabbed when trying to disarm someone because 'they are cops'. Sh1t job but somebody has got to do it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    Programmed Cops: "If you don't drop that cheeseburger immediately and kick it away from you we'll have no choice but to riddle you with bullets until you're no longer a threat"

    Free-thinking Gardai: "You might as well eat that before it goes cold"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    That's because there are so many guns around for so cheap that every situation they enter there is a fair chance someone will be armed.

    It's not the fault of the police.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I assume now that the video footage of this incident has been released the OP has apologised for using the term "causing a commotion" and has resolved to mend his ways and not go off half cocked in the future?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    "What I dont understand is the world's media constantly reporting every mistake US cops make....Gang violence in places like America is fairly hororrific. Ie literally thousands of dead a year. However that's largely ignored while the media report police shootings?"

    Some people like and support gangs violence, must be lot of them in media unfortunately...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,018 ✭✭✭10000maniacs




    I don't recall any incident where a Garda suspected somebody had a gun and tasered or shot at that person because of this suspicion.

    There was an incident in Dublin where a guy was swinging a knife, vocally stating his intent to use it and was a clear and present danger to anyone around him.

    The Gardai shot him. But that situation is different as it was clear there was a imminent danger to the people around him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Well that's completely different, in Ireland it's very unlikely anyone is armed except for very hardened criminals.

    In the USA guns are everywhere there's always a fair chance someone might be armed, the very nature of this threat makes it a lot more likely for cops to panic and fire their weapon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭I Blame Sheeple


    I could buy a gun off Snapchat and have it delivered in about 40 minutes to an hour and that's not an exclusive service. It's openly advertised.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    Well good for you, but the average person in Ireland like myself do not have arms dealers on speed dial on snapchat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭I Blame Sheeple


    That's the point though, it's not exclusive and they're not ''arms dealers'' persay they're just your average drug dealer which your kid and everybody elses kids can access with ease. Hence saying only hardened criminal have access to guns here is just naive.

    We're also a country where you can legally hold a firearm and many people do, both in Dublin and in the country so your just talking out of the side of your neck really.

    Think back to the Blanchardstown siege there a while ago where that nut used two guns on the Gardai but had another one parked off in the shed as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,288 ✭✭✭source


    Again with the apples and oranges comparisons on this thread.

    Ireland is estimated to have 393,000 firearms (both registered and unregistered), the US has an estimated 430,000,000+ firearms. Population of Ireland is approximately 5 million, population of the US is about 330 million, meaning there are over 100 million more guns than people in the USA.

    2 very different situations, no matter how good goes you are at using Snapchat you can't arm every single man woman and child in this country with enough guns left over to arm a third of the country again. That is why US police are more on edge than the Gardai.



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