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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Healy puts in one 7/10 performance and the hype train begins



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Just like lot of players from elsewhere...? Healy has put in lot more than one performance to be hyped up.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It’s a worry alright that the three 10’s we picked for the AI’s we’re all unavailable this weekend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,826 ✭✭✭nerd69


    He's been really best out half in munster hasn't put a foot wrong all year and at the end of last year tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Harry byrne hasnt even put in a 7/10 this season and was selected to play for Ireland after only playing 25mins of urc. That is a hype train built on imagery "ceilings" not form.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    It is a huge worry because all 3 are usually out injured instead of being fit to play.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Bundees work at the breakdown often goes unmentioned when talking about first choice centre partnerships. He’s often like an extra back rower on the pitch



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭TRC10


    And nearly everyone agrees he shouldn't have been in the Ireland squad

    (and actually he was comfortably 7/10 v Connacht, but one should have to do more than that to make an Ireland squad)

    If he keeps up his form over the interpros and the next 2 rounds of Europe then he'll come into the conversation but he's started 2 games for Munster this season so let's not get ahead of ourselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭ersatz


    We learned a lot in November but we are in a worse situation following it wrt outhalf. Carbery likely out of the 6N, Byrne with no games and Johnny good for only two games. Carty's ship is coming in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Carty isn't even in the squad.



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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,283 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    With carbery out, Jack carty is certainly in the training squad and it wouldnt be a huge leap for him to get into the match day squad.

    If Sexton was injured, would we (currently) prefer him or Harry to be starting against England??

    I know who id prefer



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,689 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    I think if the training squad was named tomorrow, Carty would be in it. Whether he can translate that to selection is up to him but I think his recent performances are less compelling than they are being made out to be

    Assuming H Byrne stays fit and gets a couple of runs I would expect him, Sexton and Carty to be named, but Ross Byrne is playing well and could yet come back into the mix.



  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭highball14


    I wouldn’t rule out Ben Healy either. If he’s playing well as a young starting out half for Munster then there’s a great chance he’ll be in the squad with Carbery out. That could be instead of Harry Byrne if he doesn’t show enough in the next few months, instead of Carty if Carty’s form drops a bit or instead of Sexton if he is injured.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Right now, Carty is comfortably the 2nd best out-half in Ireland if everyone is fit. And I include Carbery in that.

    So Sexton and Carty should 100% be in the squad and I'd have Carty on the bench.

    The 3rd spot is very much up for grabs. As Former said, if Harry Byrne can string some games together (and that's a big if) then he'll likely be there as no.3. If Healy keeps playing like he did v Castres then he could come into the mix.

    I'd be surprised if Ross Byrne gets in. He's the 10 who's least in the mould of what Farrell wants from his 10.

    I wonder if the likelihood of Carty being involved in a 6N matchday 23 means Farrell might be more likely to pick Marmion or Blade in his squad for familiarity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    that would be great

    with Aki, it's the ideal 9/10/12 combo

    don't make us dream..



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭jimdemp


    Imagine the 3 injury prone 10s are injured come the World cup Farrell would look like a fool. like what are the chances Sexton gets through the first the game NZ this summer? Even Carbery will struggle make it through the 3 with what NZ will bring. Just think what they did to Henshaw in Dublin, they will get away with more in NZ.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Given everything we saw in November we are actually in a worse place regarding tens than we were beforehand. And regardless of peoples views here H Byrne is further away from the Irish team than ever unless he gets some real game time. Carty will have plenty of games over the next couple of months to keep himself in Farrells mind, as I expect will R Byrne. Those two and Sexton (assuming he's fit) would be my bet for the 6N at this stage.

    I'm also not sure that Ross is so very far away from the kind of ten Farrell likes. The Irish Nov game was not all about the ten on the line firing flat passes inside and out. A lot of it was movement by forwards off the ball giving the ten a couple of options combined with loops and short pop passes. Yes, it meant the the ten had to make the right decision about who to hit quickly but the structure is there to do that and everyone on the team was executing their option and timing accurately which makes those decisions easier to make well more of the time. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see this kind of distribution being beyond RB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    If you know the 10 can’t attack the line, it makes defending easier. This will always be the issue with Ross. Both Carberry and Sexton posses a running threat with ball in hand. So teams have to defend that threat, no matter where the ball is going. Also both played flat to the line, the deeper a ten sits, the deeper the players around him sit. Which gives defence more time to come up and slows the attack.

    Also RB hasn’t been playing particularly well this season. He was solid against Bath but nothing he has done so far this season screams inclusion. He was playing far better last season.

    Ben Healy may come into contention with a few games for Munster. Though I still see him as another RB. Solid player but not athletic enough or dangerous enough with ball in hand to be an international.

    A lot will depend on what if any games are played in January. Then how much gametime HB can get in that window.

    Given how we are trying to play, I’d say there is a far higher chance of Billy Burns coming back in rather than RB. Though he isn’t playing great either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Ben Healy may come into contention with a few games for Munster. Though I still see him as another RB. Solid player but not athletic enough or dangerous enough with ball in hand to be an international.

    I did think this as well however the Castres game changed my view on Ben Healy a little bit. He actually did show more of a running threat and challenged the line a lot more than he had previously. It could well be something he's improved on this season so I'm eager to see him get a run of games.

    I think I noticed him taking restarts with his left foot as well, which is very interesting.

    I don't think athleticism or being "dangerous" with ball in hand are absolutely necessary for an international fly half. Guys like Owen Farrell, ROG or George Ford wouldn't be particularly athletic or make many linebreaks, but they take the ball square to the line and they sit down defences, and 9/10 they pick the right pass which you don't have to be "athletic" to do. So I don't see athleticism as what's holding Ross Byrne back. It's something that I've noticed Jack Carty has started doing a lot better this season (and he isn't exactly Beauden Barrett in terms of athleticism). So there's no reason why Ross Byrne can't start doing it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Kevin Potts has been appointed as incoming Chief Executive of the Irish Rugby Football Union.

    Potts, who succeeds Philip Browne, has been Chief Operating Officer of the IRFU since 2015. 



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Browne is going to be a massive loss. Do not know anything about Potts other than he is an accountant and that doesn't fill me with allot of hope. Not trying to annoy accountants here. But i don't think they are the best type of people (they love numbers) to be running a sporting organistation.


    Apparently he played for Leinster ----- Nope that was his brother Ciaran....Which i have no memory of.

    https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/where-are-they-now-ciaran-potts/

    Wait! I now see Kevin did play play for Leinster and Ireland A! Can anyone confirm?

    Post edited by ionadnapokot on


  • Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    Lots of comment about the outside half slot for Ireland. The biggest positional conundrum for AF IMO. Will it be Sexton for the next WC?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,051 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Listening to Second Captains talking about the rugby at the weekend, and heard something that I'm not sure I've ever heard in my life before, and that is Gerry Thornley criticising Connor Murray. Didn't see the Munster/Castres game but was he that poor?



    It's looking that way. Sexton is still head-and-shoulders above all the other options. I agree it's the biggest problem though because at some point Sexton won't be physically up to it any more and we don't know if that'll be before or after the RWC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,540 ✭✭✭Luckycharm


    Just because you have no knowledge doesn't it mean it is true. Kevin played for Leinster in the backrow as a 6 in the late 80's early 90s, he also played for Ireland A. He played Senior rugby for Marys for years and was heavily involved there before leaving a big job to go work in the IRFU.

    You do realise most people who played rugby would have a job, I would prefer an accountant to be in charge of the IRFU than a plumber.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,543 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    He's been in the IRFU (in non financial roles) for a longer period than he was an accountant. 13 years vs 17


    I'm sure he will be fine. Remains to be seen how effective he will be succeeding one of the most quietly effective CEOs Irish sport has seen



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,313 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    He’ll take anything if he thinks he can make money off it for himself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I'm not a huge fan of RB but the idea that he doesn't fix defenders by attacking the line is just not true, he does it (occasionally) as every back line rugby player does. He does sit back, loves to kick for his wingers, etc and differs from Sexton in important ways but the way Ireland are playing now is not beyond his skill set. I have to point out that I've seen Sexton make one line break this year in green, a year when he has played some of the best rugby we've seen from him. Sexton takes the ball into contact more than Byrne does for sure and plays more often on the line, etc. But this isn't a situation where Im promoting RB as the answer to our OH problmes, far from it. I'm simply pointing out that his brother has slim hopes of getting the kind of game time that gets him into the 23 come 6N, while Ross is playing very solidly (unlike Burns who is an accident waiting to happen every time he togs out) and, given the bare cupboard, could well be named for the 6N.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    I actually like Ross Byrne, in terms of a 10 who can control a game, I think he is probably the best after Sexton. I just think his lack pace and athleticism will always stop him being a viable option at international level. He gets away with it by sitting deeper and at the top level, that costs you.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭KaneToad




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