Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Climate Bolloxolgy.

1495052545582

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,008 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Again I agree. I'd get an EV tomorrow but I couldn't charge it at home. Not much point then.

    We're a long way from an alternative to fossil fuels for haulage/agriculture. Both of these industries had a half arsed protest last weekend to highlight a very real fact - carbon tax is charged to change behaviour but no alternative yet exists. Hard to argue with them.

    Lets be honest, EVs are perfect for the vast majority of people. I'd go higher than 95%! They are not cost competitive yet. Most people look at the buying price and then they don't compare well with ICE.

    One last thing. Would you expect the tax on EVs to sky rocket over the coming years as the switch happens as the intake from ICE vehicles falls off? I personally do. There's a big hole in the pockets of revenue to be filled there



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Regarding future tax base, there are already a few proposals in the works e.g. Vehicle weight, distance travelled each year etc. Yet to be seen which way they will go but yeah I don't think anyone is under any illusions, there will be a significant change coming in that regard



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,008 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Interesting story here - https://www.siliconrepublic.com/innovation/carbonspace-10-worst-carbon-emitters-europe

    Ireland not in the EU top 10 emitters of CO2

    Latest data on the site shows we're 111th overall in 2018

    Can't get later years without being a business or something.

    Zooming in on Ireland I was in no way surprised to see the urban zones being the biggest emitters. I wonder does the tech take into account sequestration of the land?

    However, the story remains that it's the cows fault 😊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭alps


    Absolutely correct about the motivation behind the protests of industries that no alternative power source and have no capacity to reduce usage.

    But the narrative about EV's suiting any high proportion of the population is way out.

    Only a very small percentage of our population live somewhere that has a driveway or garage to facilitate a plug in, leads across driveways, 2/3/4 cars in the driveway requiring charging.

    How many housing estates, town houses, apartments could facilitate charging for not only 1 car in the household, not to mind several..

    Someone might be able to answer some costs questions..

    Can a 24kw battery be recharged with just 24kw of electric power? Could it take more?

    24kw x 20c/kw = €4.80 to drive 100 miles.

    Similar diesel cost for 100 miles would be €13.89

    However as milage capacity deteriorates in the EV, does the cost increase.

    Looking at a really nice second hand Leaf...Max battery capacity now at 45 miles

    Is it costing now €4.80 for the 45 miles, (diesel equivalent €6.25) or because the battery gives less output, does it only take in less charge, costing less iykwim...

    Details around this, as well as the price of a replacement battery are impossible to get from anyone in the know..

    On the above leaf...its 7 years old, almost at the end of its functional life, but its diesel equivalent has another 10/12 years of service to give..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭ginger22


    A 24 KW battery takes 24 Kw of electricity to charge fully from zero. And also there is always some loss in the process. So the reduced capacity battery will just take in the amount it is capable of storing or returning. But you should take into account that the battery will detoriate further with age, allow for replacement cost in future.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Honestly, thats a post for the folks over at the EV forum as they would be a lot more knowledgeable in that regard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭ginger22


    In the future there will be recycling facilities established to recondition the batteries but for now there is not enough demand for this service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭alps




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,008 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Only a very small percentage of our population live somewhere that has a driveway or garage to facilitate a plug in, leads across driveways, 2/3/4 cars in the driveway requiring charging.


    How many housing estates, town houses, apartments could facilitate charging for not only 1 car in the household, not to mind several..

    I have to disagree with that. The vast majority of people live somewhere with a driveway or area to park somewhat. Most apartments would have parking spaces. Granted there are some places not suitable (I live in one such hole myself).

    There is massive infrastructure investment needed but I didn't reference that. Most people only drive a small amount, well within the range of an EV on a daily/weekly basis. That's the point I was making.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,898 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Ongoing advance in nuclear power via fusion reactors etc. will pass out all that greenwash baloney soon enough



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'll be interested to see that happening as nuclear fusion has been promised, studied and experimented with since the 1940's. It's going to be a good one to get over the line as another low emission energy source, but being realistic, it will still likely be decades before that happens unfortunately but once it does it will be a good one to utilise to replace existing nuclear fission plants. At the very least the benefits in terms of waste make it very worthwhile over fission



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,898 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Actually it is only in very recent times that fusion has been looked at seriously - prior to then nuclear energy was just an offshoot from weapons development based on fission



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Aye, and that's part of the problem. It's been tinkered with (does billions of investment qualify as tinkering) for decades and only kicking into decent research since the 2000's.

    As a result it still hasn't hit break even, though its climbing (slowly)

    Either way, while it has massive potential, it's unlikely to come to large scale commercial energy before 2050 if we're very, VERY lucky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,028 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I don't think hydrogen will be used for shipping. If you just stored it as a compressed gas, The volume of the ship required to store it's fuel would be 4-7 times that for fuel oil. Can you imagine the outcome of a collision rupturing a large tank of H2 that's at 700 bar pressure? A greater density can be had if you cryogenically cool the H2 to -253°C, but the cost, complexity and bulk of the refrigeration plant necessary to maintain your fuel is just ridiculous. Any failure in that plant and you either have to vent your H2 to atmosphere or it goes boom from rising pressure.

    I nearly fell off my sofa when I saw a photo of the worlds first liquid H2 transport ship:

    Untitled Image

    All of that infrastructure required to transport a mere 75 tons.

    Personally, I think you can forget about liquid hydrogen to power ships that cross oceans.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I guess we'll have to wait and see, its early days yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 907 ✭✭✭techman1


    thats why alot of this stuff won't be happening, electric cars will be about the height of it but much slower uptake than the governments and the media think. I think it is slowly dawning on alot of people what a wonderful fuel source petroleum is and how it will be almost impossible to replace. Our whole technological and industrial base is centred on this one fuel. People thinking we can leave it in the ground as a "stranded asset" are deluded and frankly technologically ignorant

    To jump from petroleum to hydrogen is just too difficult and dangerous, there are no Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos doing this because it is too difficult , too risky, and no consumer pay off, thats why most of our technological advancement is in the area of consumer electronics, the electric car is simply the biggest consumer electronics gadget now



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭einn32




  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This could provide a stable additional income for many. Install a load of solar on shed roofs, avoid the need to have batteries and instead export the excess back to the grid and get paid for it. Whats not to love




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    Hard to have the finance to invest but every income would help



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,008 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Whats the costs here? Firstly, grants will mean the cost to deploy will rise. The sale back to the grid is very welcome. It's a no brainer idea really. What's the timeframe for getting your investment back and then into profit. If it was 5/7 years I'll fill every roof I can!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    Got a price a few years back, was it something like 7-10k per bay, can’t remember if batteries were included



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭alps


    Grant aided up to 6kW...tiny size, and no mention of electricity price

    If going what looks like to be a non grant route, guaranteed 15 ppa helpful, but not sure the 13.5c/kWh will suffice.

    These boys have consistently proven to be able to price these things right on the margin of it being able to go ahead financially.

    Do you yhink the figures stack up?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭alps


    And the big question....how will it effect the price of the electricity that you buy in? You will probably have to go on smart meter pricing if you are to be allowed to export. Will you have power available to export during the peak afternoon/evening surge in demand? There could be a mouth watering difference in the price of a kWh between 2pm and 6pm..

    Might work for dry livestock farms, but not sure at all about dairy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭alps





  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Price is a difficult one to lock down, its the same as saying how much is a car or a house.

    It depends on a number of factors

    • # of panels
    • Efficiency of panels
    • Wattage of panels
    • Brand of panels
    • Grants used
    • Self install vs contractor install

    But, in terms of payback, I would expect a 5-7 year period to be more or less the standard. Obviously there will be days/weeks/months of higher/lower outputs but over a year long period every installation that is producing more than the site consumes, will see a profit.

    It really is a fantastic development to see this finally get over the line.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Grant aided up to 6kW...tiny size

    I think the cutoff is a fair one. If you allow unlimited grants then you end up with a few lads with the resources, hogging all the grant money. This way the pot is spread amongst many more installations.

    Also, keep in mind that an installation will (if large enough) take care of your own consumption as well as exporting, so you are gaining in reduced bills in addition to the income generated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭alps


    Gov should be grant aiding to reduce emissions..

    You can't just say this will have a 5 to 7 year payback, without ANY figures, be they cost of equipment, or price of electricity..

    Even Pippa would hire a company to do a report before committing such a view..



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm saying those figures based on the posters on the renewable energy forum. There's a mountain of data on that forum, all from owners of the existing systems. The missing piece for them was the tariff which is now known



Advertisement